[Zen] Re: Liberation II
Bill - Never underestimate the creativity and power of the discursve mind! It keeps millions of Internet groups and hundreds of millions of posters occupied and happy. This is what distinguishes our culture as being 'civilized'. --ED ;-) --- In Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com, Bill! billsm...@... wrote: ED, I looked at the book, at page 343 as you suggested. It's just unbeleiveable to me that someone could think they could say anything relevant about zen in 550+ page book. Zen is so simple and uncomplicated I just don't know how anyone could squeeze that many words out of it - or any words for that matter. Talk about 'selling water by the river'! This is like selling a whole fleet of tankers with 90 different flavors of water, carbonated water, ice in all shapes and sizes, steam in a variety of pressures - and yes, selling all these different forms of water - you guessed it - by the river. ...Bill!
Re: [Zen] Re: Liberation II
Dr. Austin's work is of more interest to the person seeking a scientific understanding of the brain than to a person seeking to experience Zen training for themselves. Though, Bill, I'm sure if we wrote all of your interesting and helpful posts on this forum together into one piece, it would be hundreds of pages long. --Chris On Sat, Dec 25, 2010 at 5:57 AM, ED seacrofter...@yahoo.com wrote: Bill - Never underestimate the creativity and power of the discursve mind! It keeps millions of Internet groups and hundreds of millions of posters occupied and happy. This is what distinguishes our culture as being 'civilized'. --ED ;-) --- In Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com, Bill! billsm...@... wrote: ED, I looked at the book, at page 343 as you suggested. It's just unbeleiveable to me that someone could think they could say anything relevant about zen in 550+ page book. Zen is so simple and uncomplicated I just don't know how anyone could squeeze that many words out of it - or any words for that matter. Talk about 'selling water by the river'! This is like selling a whole fleet of tankers with 90 different flavors of water, carbonated water, ice in all shapes and sizes, steam in a variety of pressures - and yes, selling all these different forms of water - you guessed it - by the river. ...Bill!
[Zen] Re: Liberation II
Ha! Ha! Ha! That's the best one I've hear in a long time: ...I get the impression that there are five principal categories of 'oneness' Ha! Ha! Ha! (or maybe it should be Ho! Ho! Ho! in honor of Christmas!) ...Bill! --- In Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com, ED seacrofter...@... wrote: Yesterday, I checked on 'oneness' in James Austin's: 'Zen-Mind Reflections'. The subject appears to be quite complex, with pages 333 to 357 and much, much more devoted to it - all a bit over my head. I get the impression that there are five principal categories of 'oneness', and that these states of unity may be encountered in mature states of kensho-satori and beyond. The Google-book is found here: Zen-brain reflections: reviewing recent developments in meditation ... http://books.google.com/books?id=uZ4fyfH_t9ECprintsec=frontcoverdq=ed\ itions:uZ4fyfH_t9EChl=enei=LX8TTZ2_JIKosQP524i9Agsa=Xoi=book_result\ ct=resultresnum=1ved=0CCMQ6AEwAA --- In Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com, Chris Austin-Lane chris@ wrote: The world is already one. With countries and people that do not always see the unity. Current Book Discussion: any Zen book that you recently have read or are reading! Talk about it today!Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Zen_Forum/ * Your email settings: Individual Email | Traditional * To change settings online go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Zen_Forum/join (Yahoo! ID required) * To change settings via email: zen_forum-dig...@yahoogroups.com zen_forum-fullfeatu...@yahoogroups.com * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: zen_forum-unsubscr...@yahoogroups.com * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[Zen] Re: Liberation II
Bill, be happy, don't worry, we are all ONE![:p]--ED --- In Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com, Bill! billsm...@... wrote: Ha! Ha! Ha! That's the best one I've hear in a long time: ...I get the impression that there are five principal categories of 'oneness' Ha! Ha! Ha! (or maybe it should be Ho! Ho! Ho! in honor of Christmas!) ...Bill! --- In Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com /group/Zen_Forum/post?postID=EcwnSUZLqmANVID9K1FJJNhV31NwGwij5ZoOoYL966\ DVX4weAqlSjCkVbP9bghT-a5xwO0BEXpn1_Jspy7Z4 , ED seacrofter...@... wrote: Yesterday, I checked on 'oneness' in James Austin's: 'Zen-Mind Reflections'. The subject appears to be quite complex, with pages 333 to 357 and much, much more devoted to it - all a bit over my head. I get the impression that there are five principal categories of 'oneness', and that these states of unity may be encountered in mature states of kensho-satori and beyond. The Google-book is found here: Zen-brain reflections: reviewing recent developments in meditation ... http://books.google.com/books?id=uZ4fyfH_t9ECprintsec=frontcoverdq=ed\ itions:uZ4fyfH_t9EChl=enei=LX8TTZ2_JIKosQP524i9Agsa=Xoi=book_result\ =ct=resultresnum=1ved=0CCMQ6AEwAA http://books.google.com/books?id=uZ4fyfH_t9ECprintsec=frontcoverdq=ed\ itions:uZ4fyfH_t9EChl=enei=LX8TTZ2_JIKosQP524i9Agsa=Xoi=book_result\ =ct=resultresnum=1ved=0CCMQ6AEwAA --- In Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com /group/Zen_Forum/post?postID=EcwnSUZLqmANVID9K1FJJNhV31NwGwij5ZoOoYL966\ DVX4weAqlSjCkVbP9bghT-a5xwO0BEXpn1_Jspy7Z4 , Chris Austin-Lane chris@ wrote: The world is already one. With countries and people that do not always see the unity.
[Zen] Re: Liberation II
MEL: Hi there Bill, ED, and all BILL: That sounds a lot like what a great bodhisattva is reported to have taught: Matthew 6:2 So when you give to the needy, do not announce it with trumpets, as the hypocrites do in the synagogues and on the streets, to be honored by men. I tell you the truth, they have received their reward in full. Matthew 6:3 But when you give to the needy, do not let your left hand know what your right hand is doing,... MEL: I hope you're not putting me on the same level as a bodhisattva, Bill...(*smiles*)...and also considering that I may have only a very slight idea of what the word actually means(*sighs/laughter*).. I really enjoyed the quotations above ED: What a person says or does is a function of his or her conscious or unconscious values and objectives in life, not ours. MEL: Yes. All I'm saying is..we should all do just what is required, and then move on...and forget about pride, and the Self ED: What 'should' his or her values and objectives in life be? MEL: Inside each and every individual on attainment of adulthood(which may not take place for many years after the 18th or 21st, or even 30th birthday) are values and objectives that have been learned from since childhood, and it's up to him/her to act upon those and live with such, or not It's really unecessary to state in words what the values and objectives are. We just act on them Current Book Discussion: any Zen book that you recently have read or are reading! Talk about it today!Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Zen_Forum/ * Your email settings: Individual Email | Traditional * To change settings online go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Zen_Forum/join (Yahoo! ID required) * To change settings via email: zen_forum-dig...@yahoogroups.com zen_forum-fullfeatu...@yahoogroups.com * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: zen_forum-unsubscr...@yahoogroups.com * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[Zen] Re: Liberation II
ED, You might have values and objectives, but you should not be attached to your (or anyone else's) values or objectives. ...Bill! --- In Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com, ED seacrofter...@... wrote: Mel and Bill, What a person says or does is a function of his or her conscious or unconscious values and objectives in life, not ours. What 'should' his or her values and objectives in life be? --ED --- In Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com, Bill! BillSmart@ wrote: Mel, That sounds a lot like what a great bodhisattva is reported to have taught: Matthew 6:2 So when you give to the needy, do not announce it with trumpets, as the hypocrites do in the synagogues and on the streets, to be honored by men. I tell you the truth, they have received their reward in full. Matthew 6:3 But when you give to the needy, do not let your left hand know what your right hand is doing,... ...Bill! How about doing good, and then moving onto other matters without dwelling on thoughts of having done such and such acts of goodness, whatever it is/was? I personally would even go so far as to forget about entirely all that ensuing 'feel good' moment, after having committed whatever act(s) of goodness in peace Mel Current Book Discussion: any Zen book that you recently have read or are reading! Talk about it today!Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Zen_Forum/ * Your email settings: Individual Email | Traditional * To change settings online go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Zen_Forum/join (Yahoo! ID required) * To change settings via email: zen_forum-dig...@yahoogroups.com zen_forum-fullfeatu...@yahoogroups.com * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: zen_forum-unsubscr...@yahoogroups.com * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[Zen] Re: Liberation II
Bill, Why *should* I not? --ED --- In Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com, Bill! billsm...@... wrote: ED, You might have values and objectives, but you should not be attached to your (or anyone else's) values or objectives. ...Bill! Mel and Bill, What a person says or does is a function of his or her conscious or unconscious values and objectives in life, not ours. What 'should' his or her values and objectives in life be? --ED Mel, That sounds a lot like what a great bodhisattva is reported to have taught: Matthew 6:2 So when you give to the needy, do not announce it with trumpets, as the hypocrites do in the synagogues and on the streets, to be honored by men. I tell you the truth, they have received their reward in full. Matthew 6:3 But when you give to the needy, do not let your left hand know what your right hand is doing,... ...Bill! How about doing good, and then moving onto other matters without dwelling on thoughts of having done such and such acts of goodness, whatever it is/was? I personally would even go so far as to forget about entirely all that ensuing 'feel good' moment, after having committed whatever act(s) of goodness in peace Mel
[Zen] Re: Liberation II
--- In Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com, Mel gunnar19632...@... wrote: MEL: Hi there Bill, ED, and all BILL: That sounds a lot like what a great bodhisattva is reported to have taught: Matthew 6:2 So when you give to the needy, do not announce it with trumpets, as the hypocrites do in the synagogues and on the streets, to be honored by men. I tell you the truth, they have received their reward in full. Matthew 6:3 But when you give to the needy, do not let your left hand know what your right hand is doing,... MEL: I hope you're not putting me on the same level as a bodhisattva, Bill...(*smiles*)...and also considering that I may have only a very slight idea of what the word actually means(*sighs/laughter*).. I really enjoyed the quotations above ED: What a person says or does is a function of his or her conscious or unconscious values and objectives in life, not ours. MEL: Yes. All I'm saying is..we should all do just what is required, and then move on...and forget about pride, and the Self ED: Why forget about pride and the Self? ED: What 'should' his or her values and objectives in life be? MEL: Inside each and every individual on attainment of adulthood(which may not take place for many years after the 18th or 21st, or even 30th birthday) are values and objectives that have been learned from since childhood, and it's up to him/her to act upon those and live with such, or not It's really unecessary to state in words what the values and objectives are. We just act on them ED: No, but most of us are not aware of what these values are, as they are mostly hidden from ourselves. So, articulating them to oneself can be a form of awareness practice.
[Zen] Re: Liberation II
Yesterday, I checked on 'oneness' in James Austin's: 'Zen-Mind Reflections'. The subject appears to be quite complex, with pages 333 to 357 and much, much more devoted to it - all a bit over my head. I get the impression that there are five principal categories of 'oneness', and that these states of unity may be encountered in mature states of kensho-satori and beyond. The Google-book is found here: Zen-brain reflections: reviewing recent developments in meditation ... http://books.google.com/books?id=uZ4fyfH_t9ECprintsec=frontcoverdq=ed\ itions:uZ4fyfH_t9EChl=enei=LX8TTZ2_JIKosQP524i9Agsa=Xoi=book_result\ ct=resultresnum=1ved=0CCMQ6AEwAA --- In Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com, Chris Austin-Lane ch...@... wrote: The world is already one. With countries and people that do not always see the unity.
[Zen] Re: Liberation II
How about doing good, and then moving onto other matters without dwelling on thoughts of having done such and such acts of goodness, whatever it is/was? I personally would even go so far as to forget about entirely all that ensuing 'feel good' moment, after having committed whatever act(s) of goodness in peace Mel Current Book Discussion: any Zen book that you recently have read or are reading! Talk about it today!Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Zen_Forum/ * Your email settings: Individual Email | Traditional * To change settings online go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Zen_Forum/join (Yahoo! ID required) * To change settings via email: zen_forum-dig...@yahoogroups.com zen_forum-fullfeatu...@yahoogroups.com * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: zen_forum-unsubscr...@yahoogroups.com * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[Zen] Re: Liberation II
Mel, That sounds a lot like what a great bodhisattva is reported to have taught: Matthew 6:2 So when you give to the needy, do not announce it with trumpets, as the hypocrites do in the synagogues and on the streets, to be honored by men. I tell you the truth, they have received their reward in full. Matthew 6:3 But when you give to the needy, do not let your left hand know what your right hand is doing,... ...Bill! --- In Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com, Mel gunnar19632...@... wrote: How about doing good, and then moving onto other matters without dwelling on thoughts of having done such and such acts of goodness, whatever it is/was? I personally would even go so far as to forget about entirely all that ensuing 'feel good' moment, after having committed whatever act(s) of goodness in peace Mel Current Book Discussion: any Zen book that you recently have read or are reading! Talk about it today!Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Zen_Forum/ * Your email settings: Individual Email | Traditional * To change settings online go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Zen_Forum/join (Yahoo! ID required) * To change settings via email: zen_forum-dig...@yahoogroups.com zen_forum-fullfeatu...@yahoogroups.com * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: zen_forum-unsubscr...@yahoogroups.com * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[Zen] Re: Liberation II
Or, take your pick: 'Imagine' or 'Just THIS.' --- Imagine Imagine there's no Heaven It's easy if you try No hell below us Above us only sky Imagine all the people Living for today Imagine there's no countries It isn't hard to do Nothing to kill or die for And no religion too Imagine all the people Living life in peace You may say that I'm a dreamer But I'm not the only one I hope someday you'll join us And the world will be as one Imagine no possessions I wonder if you can No need for greed or hunger A brotherhood of man Imagine all the people Sharing all the world You may say that I'm a dreamer But I'm not the only one I hope someday you'll join us And the world will live as one --- --- In Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com mailto:Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com , Bill wrote: Hey! Isn't this post just a paraphrasing of John Lennon's lyrics to 'Imagine'? ...Bill! Good morning All, What if we could expand our fulfilling of every moment beyond spouse, and willfully deliver, without judgment, planning, expectation, role-play and any preconceived notions, and just simply live every moment with out best foot forward, within our resources allowed, What if we could temporarily put aside our concept of role, duty, responsibility and just act with harmonious intentions. What if we could live a role which includes every role altogether? Be a teacher and student, husband and wife, son and daughter, friend and enemy all at the same time? What if we could let go of our pre-conceived journey and just let it unfold to us Could we? What if we look inward and not outward? What if we simply ignore everything that were ever posted, including this one of mine, and reach inside to our inner Tahiti. Perhaps it is not out there. :-) JMJM -- Be Enlightened In This Life - We ALL Can http://chanjmjm.blogspot.com http://chanjmjm.blogspot.com http://www.heartchan.org http://www.heartchan.org
Re: [Zen] Re: Liberation II
Indeed. The world is one. It is we, who wouldn't, couldn't, shouldn't.:'( Be Enlightened In This Life - We ALL Can http://chanjmjm.blogspot.com http://www.heartchan.org On 12/22/2010 10:45 AM, Chris Austin-Lane wrote: The world is already one. With countries and peopleb that do not always see the unity. On Dec 22, 2010 9:55 AM, ED seacrofter...@yahoo.com mailto:seacrofter...@yahoo.com wrote: Or, take your pick: 'Imagine' or 'Just THIS.' --- Imagine Imagine there's no Heaven It's easy if you try No hell below us Above us only sky Imagine all the people Living for today Imagine there's no countries It isn't hard to do Nothing to kill or die for And no religion too Imagine all the people Living life in peace You may say that I'm a dreamer But I'm not the only one I hope someday you'll join us And the world will be as one Imagine no possessions I wonder if you can No need for greed or hunger A brotherhood of man Imagine all the people Sharing all the world You may say that I'm a dreamer But I'm not the only one I hope someday you'll join us And the world will live as one --- --- In Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com mailto:Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com, Bill wrote: Hey! Isn't this post just a paraphrasing of John Lennon's lyrics to 'Imagine'? ...Bill! Good morning All, What if we could expand our fulfilling of every moment beyond spouse, and...
[Zen] Re: Liberation II
JMJM, one what? --ED --- In Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com, Jue Miao Jing Ming wrote: Indeed. The world is one.
[Zen] Re: Liberation II
Hi Ed, Chan in Chinese is 禪。 The Japanese pronounce the same character zen. In Chinese, the left half of the character means spirit as well as body. The right half of the character means Singular. Chan means the universe as a whole, including the visible and the invisible, the static and the dynamic, the form and the energy, the perpetual and the impermanent. We call this wholeness, or the universe as one for short. The Chan practice is to unify our body, mind and spirit as one then unify our one with the Big One, in energy, wisdom and spirit. Not to understand, not to imagine, but to attain. Shakyamuni and Jesus both awake to the essence Chan, or the universe, or the meaning of life, and went to teach others. People labeled their teachings as Buddhism and Christianity or something like that. I am sure many other people witnessed Chan and taught in many different ways. Some of us study it. Some of us analyze it. Some of us idolize it. Few of us be one with the One. While the simple truth is we were borne from it and always part of it. All sufferings are caused by our intentional or unintentional separation from it, either physically or spiritually. Too often we were mesmerized by the words and concept of the teaching and forgot that we really don't need anything, but just to sit down and cultivate our awareness. :-) JMJM Head Teacher Order of Chan Be Enlightened In This Life - We ALL Can http://chanjmjm.blogspot.com http://www.heartchan.org On 12/22/2010 3:24 PM, ED wrote: JMJM, one what? --ED --- In Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com, Jue Miao Jing Ming wrote: Indeed. The world is one.
[Zen] Re: Liberation II
Hey! Isn't this post just a paraphrasing of John Lennon's lyrics to 'Imagine'? ...Bill! --- In Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com, Jue Miao Jing Ming - 覺å¦ç²¾æ chan.j...@... wrote: Good morning All, What if we could expand our fulfilling of every moment beyond spouse, and willfully deliver, without judgment, planning, expectation, role-play and any preconceived notions, and just simply live every moment with out best foot forward, within our resources allowed, What if we could temporarily put aside our concept of role, duty, responsibility and just act with harmonious intentions. What if we could live a role which includes every role altogether? Be a teacher and student, husband and wife, son and daughter, friend and enemy all at the same time? What if we could let go of our pre-conceived journey and just let it unfold to us Could we? What if we look inward and not outward? What if we simply ignore everything that were ever posted, including this one of mine, and reach inside to our inner Tahiti. Perhaps it is not out there. :-) JMJM -- Be Enlightened In This Life - We ALL Can http://chanjmjm.blogspot.com http://www.heartchan.org Current Book Discussion: any Zen book that you recently have read or are reading! Talk about it today!Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Zen_Forum/ * Your email settings: Individual Email | Traditional * To change settings online go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Zen_Forum/join (Yahoo! ID required) * To change settings via email: zen_forum-dig...@yahoogroups.com zen_forum-fullfeatu...@yahoogroups.com * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: zen_forum-unsubscr...@yahoogroups.com * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
