Re: [ZION] Tariffs and War
Gary Smith wrote: > With the Arab/Islam idealeology, which I've tried to study closely since > before Reagan sent our Marines into Lebanon, I've learned that the only > thing they understand is supreme, ruthless force. Anything less is turned > into a martyr's paradise. Iran doesn't invade Iraq, because they know > Hussein will happily use bio-chem warfare; or Syria's occupation of > Lebanon. Do you know the history of Lebanon? Do you know how it came to be created? If you've studied Syria's history you probably know about Hama, which is a pretty good example of being pretty ruthless, to say the least, but do you know why al-Assad did what he did there? -- Marc A. Schindler Spruce Grove, Alberta, Canada -- Gateway to the Boreal Parkland "The greater danger for most of us lies not in setting our aim too high and falling short; but in setting our aim too low, and achieving our mark." --Michelangelo Buonarroti Note: This communication represents the informal personal views of the author solely; its contents do not necessarily reflect those of the authors employer, nor those of any organization with which the author may be associated. / /// ZION LIST CHARTER: Please read it at /// /// http://www.zionsbest.com/charter.html /// / ==^^=== This email was sent to: archive@jab.org EASY UNSUBSCRIBE click here: http://topica.com/u/?aaP9AU.bWix1n Or send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] T O P I C A -- Register now to manage your mail! http://www.topica.com/partner/tag02/register ==^^===
Re: [ZION] Tariffs and War
Gary Smith wrote:
> But you are a Canadian liberal, which means you are only about 60% of an
> US American liberal. ;-)
>
Hmm, that could be a good thinkI'll have to think about that!
>
> Besides, you are very different than an American liberal. They respond
> totally by expressing feelings ("I feel your pain"), while you back
> yourself up with lots and lots of documentation
>
I don't feel back pain, I give it (the documentationsorry, it's the best I
could come up with on short notice)
>
> So, while you aren't as conservative a JWR, you definitely are no Bill
> Clinton, either
>
It really is hard to compare. Mark Gregson is considered quite conservative here
(I don't think I'm hanging laundry in public -- he's reluctant to discuss
politics while he's serving as bishop, but I don't think this is any big secret,
either -- but he can always correct me (he's bigger than me and sees me many
Sundays anyway)). But his stance on things like the military-industrial complex
would make many conservatives in the US doubt his "credentials" so to speak.
>
> K'aya K'ama,
K'uppa J'ava,
--
Marc A. Schindler
Spruce Grove, Alberta, Canada -- Gateway to the Boreal Parkland
"The greater danger for most of us lies not in setting our aim too high and
falling short; but in setting our aim too low, and achieving our mark."
--Michelangelo Buonarroti
Note: This communication represents the informal personal views of the author
solely; its contents do not necessarily reflect those of the authors employer,
nor those of any organization with which the author may be associated.
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[ZION] Tariffs and War
But you are a Canadian liberal, which means you are only about 60% of an
US American liberal. ;-)
Besides, you are very different than an American liberal. They respond
totally by expressing feelings ("I feel your pain"), while you back
yourself up with lots and lots of documentation
So, while you aren't as conservative a JWR, you definitely are no Bill
Clinton, either
K'aya K'ama,
Gerald/gary Smithgszion1 @juno.comhttp://www
.geocities.com/rameumptom/index.html
"No one is as hopelessly enslaved as the person who thinks he's free." -
Johann Wolfgang von Goethe
At 13:21 10/2/2002 -0600, M Marc wrote:
>And somebody better check the temperature in hell, because you know
what?
>I agree with every word John's written here (although I would interpret
>some of the references a bit differently). And I'm supposed to be the
>token liberal on the list. :-)
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[ZION] Tariffs and War
With the Arab/Islam idealeology, which I've tried to study closely since before Reagan sent our Marines into Lebanon, I've learned that the only thing they understand is supreme, ruthless force. Anything less is turned into a martyr's paradise. Iran doesn't invade Iraq, because they know Hussein will happily use bio-chem warfare; or Syria's occupation of Lebanon. They only understand a Mongol-like invasion, which totally devastates them. America couldn't do it, because we just aren't ruthless enough. Yes, we can push them back for a time, but their anger only grows. Why did we have the Afghanis fight their own war with us doing back up? Because they could do things in that war we couldn't. Isn't interesting how the Nephites never could quite get rid of the Lamanites. At most, they could get them scared to invade (for a time). K'aya K'ama, Gerald/gary Smithgszion1 @juno.comhttp://www .geocities.com/rameumptom/index.html "No one is as hopelessly enslaved as the person who thinks he's free." - Johann Wolfgang von Goethe Marc: Nothing is as it appears in the Middle East: when Egypt's Gammel Abdul Nasser was dealt what we thought was a humiliating defeat in the Six Days' War in June 1967, he was actually hailed as a hero in the Arab World. We don't understand why this should be so, but until we figure it out, we will continue making the same mistakes over and over. Unless we really enjoy cuddling up to snakes, we had best leave the countries of the region to sort out their own affairs. GET INTERNET ACCESS FROM JUNO! Juno offers FREE or PREMIUM Internet access for less! Join Juno today! For your FREE software, visit: http://dl.www.juno.com/get/web/. / /// ZION LIST CHARTER: Please read it at /// /// http://www.zionsbest.com/charter.html /// / ==^ This email was sent to: archive@jab.org EASY UNSUBSCRIBE click here: http://topica.com/u/?aaP9AU.bWix1n Or send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] T O P I C A -- Register now to manage your mail! http://www.topica.com/partner/tag02/register ==^
Re: [ZION] Tariffs and War
Medicine Hat, which is nearby (servicemen from the area go to the Brooks Ward of the Medicine Hat Stake), says it has a 40/40 climate, and that's what they mean -- either +40 or -40, what's the difference? Larry Jackson wrote: > Minus 40 degrees F, minus 40 degrees C. > In Canada, who would even notice the difference, eh? > > Larry Jackson > > ___ > > -ELF-: > Bunny Boots refer to a particular arctic boot manufactured > for the US military, being white, and rated to -40o F > > St Stephan: > Won't work -- the Canadians only understand Celsius temperature. > Heaven only knows what -40o Farenheit is in Canuck degrees. > > Till: > Comfort Zone > > / > /// ZION LIST CHARTER: Please read it at /// > /// http://www.zionsbest.com/charter.html /// > / > -- Marc A. Schindler Spruce Grove, Alberta, Canada -- Gateway to the Boreal Parkland "The greater danger for most of us lies not in setting our aim too high and falling short; but in setting our aim too low, and achieving our mark." --Michelangelo Buonarroti Note: This communication represents the informal personal views of the author solely; its contents do not necessarily reflect those of the authors employer, nor those of any organization with which the author may be associated. / /// ZION LIST CHARTER: Please read it at /// /// http://www.zionsbest.com/charter.html /// / ==^^=== This email was sent to: archive@jab.org EASY UNSUBSCRIBE click here: http://topica.com/u/?aaP9AU.bWix1n Or send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] T O P I C A -- Register now to manage your mail! http://www.topica.com/partner/tag02/register ==^^===
RE: [ZION] Tariffs and War
Minus 40 degrees F, minus 40 degrees C. In Canada, who would even notice the difference, eh? Larry Jackson ___ -ELF-: Bunny Boots refer to a particular arctic boot manufactured for the US military, being white, and rated to -40o F St Stephan: Won't work -- the Canadians only understand Celsius temperature. Heaven only knows what -40o Farenheit is in Canuck degrees. Till: Comfort Zone / /// ZION LIST CHARTER: Please read it at /// /// http://www.zionsbest.com/charter.html /// / ==^ This email was sent to: archive@jab.org EASY UNSUBSCRIBE click here: http://topica.com/u/?aaP9AU.bWix1n Or send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] T O P I C A -- Register now to manage your mail! http://www.topica.com/partner/tag02/register ==^
Re: [ZION] Tariffs and War
> After we invade and take you over, we'll have to teach you proper > English. "Bunny boots" are called "mukluks." This *will* be on the > test. No, the ones with the stuffed imitation bunny head on the _outside_, not the ones with the bunny fur (fake or not) on the inside. > "Elmer L. Fairbank" wrote: > > > At 13:21 10/2/2002 -0600, M Marc wrote: > > >And somebody better check the temperature in hell, because you know > > >what? I agree with every word John's written here (although I would > > >interpret some of the references a bit differently). And I'm > > >supposed to be the token liberal on the list. :-) > > > > I'd best be getting my bunny boots out Scott -- Buttered bread always lands butter side * Would YOU mistake these as down (Unless it sticks to the ceiling!) * anyone`s opinions but my own? Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Scott McGee) Web: http://scott.themcgees.org/ -- http://fastmail.fm - Access all of your messages and folders wherever you are / /// ZION LIST CHARTER: Please read it at /// /// http://www.zionsbest.com/charter.html /// / ==^ This email was sent to: archive@jab.org EASY UNSUBSCRIBE click here: http://topica.com/u/?aaP9AU.bWix1n Or send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] T O P I C A -- Register now to manage your mail! http://www.topica.com/partner/tag02/register ==^
Re: [ZION] Tariffs and War
John's explained it in another post. I had no idea they existed. Our military wears a mukluk-sized boot that comes to just below the knee, but if it has fur or an airpocket lining I wouldn't know. It's just a big, padded-looking affair that's white and isn't laced, but strapped. "Elmer L. Fairbank" wrote: > At 14:30 10/2/2002 -0600, M Marc wrote: > >After we invade and take you over, we'll have to teach you proper English. > >"Bunny > >boots" are called "mukluks." This *will* be on the test. > > Actually, on a more serious note, correct me if my understanding is off. * > > Bunny Boots refer to a particular arctic boot manufactured for the US > military, being white, and rated to -40o F They have an air valve, should > one ever have the need to equalize pressure (as in an unpressurized > aircraft) in the insulation.** I don't remember the exact US Military > designation, probably Gary knows it, they are likely quite plentiful there > in Alabama. > > Mukluks are an arctic footwear developed by the esquimo/innuit that are > made of seal? skin with the fur on the inside. > > Till, who really would like to know > > * which it often is > > ** I always hate it when my boots explode > > / > /// ZION LIST CHARTER: Please read it at /// > /// http://www.zionsbest.com/charter.html /// > / > -- Marc A. Schindler Spruce Grove, Alberta, Canada -- Gateway to the Boreal Parkland "The greater danger for most of us lies not in setting our aim too high and falling short; but in setting our aim too low, and achieving our mark." --Michelangelo Buonarroti Note: This communication represents the informal personal views of the author solely; its contents do not necessarily reflect those of the authors employer, nor those of any organization with which the author may be associated. / /// ZION LIST CHARTER: Please read it at /// /// http://www.zionsbest.com/charter.html /// / ==^^=== This email was sent to: archive@jab.org EASY UNSUBSCRIBE click here: http://topica.com/u/?aaP9AU.bWix1n Or send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] T O P I C A -- Register now to manage your mail! http://www.topica.com/partner/tag02/register ==^^===
Re: [ZION] Tariffs and War
"Elmer L. Fairbank" wrote: > At 14:30 10/2/2002 -0600, M Marc wrote: > >After we invade and take you over, we'll have to teach you proper English. > >"Bunny > >boots" are called "mukluks." This *will* be on the test. > > But Bunny Boots sounds so much cuter, big guy, Mukluks sounds so > , aboriginal. > Oh, no, Till, "mukluk" is very original. > -- Marc A. Schindler Spruce Grove, Alberta, Canada -- Gateway to the Boreal Parkland "The greater danger for most of us lies not in setting our aim too high and falling short; but in setting our aim too low, and achieving our mark." --Michelangelo Buonarroti Note: This communication represents the informal personal views of the author solely; its contents do not necessarily reflect those of the authors employer, nor those of any organization with which the author may be associated. / /// ZION LIST CHARTER: Please read it at /// /// http://www.zionsbest.com/charter.html /// / ==^^=== This email was sent to: archive@jab.org EASY UNSUBSCRIBE click here: http://topica.com/u/?aaP9AU.bWix1n Or send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] T O P I C A -- Register now to manage your mail! http://www.topica.com/partner/tag02/register ==^^===
RE: [ZION] Tariffs and War
At 17:49 10/3/2002 +, St Stephan wrote: >-ELF- > > Bunny Boots refer to a particular arctic boot manufactured for > > the US military, being white, and rated to -40o F > >Won't work -- the Canadians only understand Celsius temperature. Heaven >only knows what -40o Farenheit is in Canuck degrees. Comfort Zone >Glad to see you back. Hope all's well with you, and especially with your >brother's family. As well as can be expected. It's tough being the only LDS at such times. Till / /// ZION LIST CHARTER: Please read it at /// /// http://www.zionsbest.com/charter.html /// / ==^ This email was sent to: archive@jab.org EASY UNSUBSCRIBE click here: http://topica.com/u/?aaP9AU.bWix1n Or send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] T O P I C A -- Register now to manage your mail! http://www.topica.com/partner/tag02/register ==^
Re: [ZION] Tariffs and War
On Wed, 02 Oct 2002 13:36:08 -0400, "Elmer L. Fairbank" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> said: > At 09:04 10/2/2002 -0800, BLT wrote: > > >We don't even know who blew up the World Trade Center. > > > Till thinks it was Elvis > Scott thinks it was Alf, that weird cat-eating TV alien from some years back. I think he got upset because we wouldn't watch his tv show and did it to get back at us. Or maybe it Mork from Ork. -- Buttered bread always lands butter side * Would YOU mistake these as down (Unless it sticks to the ceiling!) * anyone`s opinions but my own? Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Scott McGee) Web: http://scott.themcgees.org/ -- http://fastmail.fm - One of many happy users: http://www.fastmail.fm/docs/quotes.html / /// ZION LIST CHARTER: Please read it at /// /// http://www.zionsbest.com/charter.html /// / ==^ This email was sent to: archive@jab.org EASY UNSUBSCRIBE click here: http://topica.com/u/?aaP9AU.bWix1n Or send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] T O P I C A -- Register now to manage your mail! http://www.topica.com/partner/tag02/register ==^
RE: [ZION] Tariffs and War
-ELF- > Bunny Boots refer to a particular arctic boot manufactured for > the US military, being white, and rated to -40o F Won't work -- the Canadians only understand Celsius temperature. Heaven only knows what -40o Farenheit is in Canuck degrees. Glad to see you back. Hope all's well with you, and especially with your brother's family. Stephen / /// ZION LIST CHARTER: Please read it at /// /// http://www.zionsbest.com/charter.html /// / ==^ This email was sent to: archive@jab.org EASY UNSUBSCRIBE click here: http://topica.com/u/?aaP9AU.bWix1n Or send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] T O P I C A -- Register now to manage your mail! http://www.topica.com/partner/tag02/register ==^
Re: [ZION] Tariffs and War
At 07:20 AM 10/3/02 -0400 Elmer L. Fairbank favored us with: >Actually, on a more serious note, correct me if my understanding is off. * > >Bunny Boots refer to a particular arctic boot manufactured for the US military, being >white, and rated to -40o F They have an air valve, should one ever have the need to >equalize pressure (as in an unpressurized aircraft) in the insulation.** I don't >remember the exact US Military designation, probably Gary knows it, they are likely >quite plentiful there in Alabama. > > >Mukluks are an arctic footwear developed by the esquimo/innuit that are made of seal? >skin with the fur on the inside. > > >Till, who really would like to know This is correct. Bunny boots, with the valve stem, are the warmest boots there are. Sometimes they are also called Mickey Mouse boots because they look so much like the shoes that Mickey Mouse wears. John W. Redelfs [EMAIL PROTECTED] * For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high [places]. (Ephesians 6:12) * "All my opinions are tentative pending further data." --JWR / /// ZION LIST CHARTER: Please read it at /// /// http://www.zionsbest.com/charter.html /// / ==^ This email was sent to: archive@jab.org EASY UNSUBSCRIBE click here: http://topica.com/u/?aaP9AU.bWix1n Or send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] T O P I C A -- Register now to manage your mail! http://www.topica.com/partner/tag02/register ==^
Re: [ZION] Tariffs and War
At 14:30 10/2/2002 -0600, M Marc wrote: >After we invade and take you over, we'll have to teach you proper English. >"Bunny >boots" are called "mukluks." This *will* be on the test. Actually, on a more serious note, correct me if my understanding is off. * Bunny Boots refer to a particular arctic boot manufactured for the US military, being white, and rated to -40o F They have an air valve, should one ever have the need to equalize pressure (as in an unpressurized aircraft) in the insulation.** I don't remember the exact US Military designation, probably Gary knows it, they are likely quite plentiful there in Alabama. Mukluks are an arctic footwear developed by the esquimo/innuit that are made of seal? skin with the fur on the inside. Till, who really would like to know * which it often is ** I always hate it when my boots explode / /// ZION LIST CHARTER: Please read it at /// /// http://www.zionsbest.com/charter.html /// / ==^ This email was sent to: archive@jab.org EASY UNSUBSCRIBE click here: http://topica.com/u/?aaP9AU.bWix1n Or send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] T O P I C A -- Register now to manage your mail! http://www.topica.com/partner/tag02/register ==^
Re: [ZION] Tariffs and War
At 14:30 10/2/2002 -0600, M Marc wrote: >After we invade and take you over, we'll have to teach you proper English. >"Bunny >boots" are called "mukluks." This *will* be on the test. But Bunny Boots sounds so much cuter, big guy, Mukluks sounds so , aboriginal. the Tillster / /// ZION LIST CHARTER: Please read it at /// /// http://www.zionsbest.com/charter.html /// / ==^ This email was sent to: archive@jab.org EASY UNSUBSCRIBE click here: http://topica.com/u/?aaP9AU.bWix1n Or send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] T O P I C A -- Register now to manage your mail! http://www.topica.com/partner/tag02/register ==^
Re: [ZION] Tariffs and War
After we invade and take you over, we'll have to teach you proper English. "Bunny boots" are called "mukluks." This *will* be on the test. "Elmer L. Fairbank" wrote: > At 13:21 10/2/2002 -0600, M Marc wrote: > >And somebody better check the temperature in hell, because you know what? > >I agree with every word John's written here (although I would interpret > >some of the references a bit differently). And I'm supposed to be the > >token liberal on the list. :-) > > I'd best be getting my bunny boots out > > Till -- Marc A. Schindler Spruce Grove, Alberta, Canada -- Gateway to the Boreal Parkland "The greater danger for most of us lies not in setting our aim too high and falling short; but in setting our aim too low, and achieving our mark." --Michelangelo Buonarroti Note: This communication represents the informal personal views of the author solely; its contents do not necessarily reflect those of the authors employer, nor those of any organization with which the author may be associated. / /// ZION LIST CHARTER: Please read it at /// /// http://www.zionsbest.com/charter.html /// / ==^^=== This email was sent to: archive@jab.org EASY UNSUBSCRIBE click here: http://topica.com/u/?aaP9AU.bWix1n Or send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] T O P I C A -- Register now to manage your mail! http://www.topica.com/partner/tag02/register ==^^===
Re: [ZION] Tariffs and War
At 13:21 10/2/2002 -0600, M Marc wrote: >And somebody better check the temperature in hell, because you know what? >I agree with every word John's written here (although I would interpret >some of the references a bit differently). And I'm supposed to be the >token liberal on the list. :-) I'd best be getting my bunny boots out Till / /// ZION LIST CHARTER: Please read it at /// /// http://www.zionsbest.com/charter.html /// / ==^ This email was sent to: archive@jab.org EASY UNSUBSCRIBE click here: http://topica.com/u/?aaP9AU.bWix1n Or send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] T O P I C A -- Register now to manage your mail! http://www.topica.com/partner/tag02/register ==^
Re: [ZION] Tariffs and War
And somebody better check the temperature in hell, because you know what? I agree with every word John's written here (although I would interpret some of the references a bit differently). And I'm supposed to be the token liberal on the list. :-) "John W. Redelfs" wrote: > At 12:22 PM 10/2/02 -0400 Jon Spencer favored us with: > >Everyone has a right to be wrong. But what, exactly, do you believe our >responsibilities to be, knowing that from whom much is given, much is expected? >Where is your line in the sand? > > "And it came to pass that he rent his coat; and he took a piece thereof, and wrote >upon itIn memory of our God, our religion, and freedom, and our peace, our wives, >and our childrenand he fastened it upon the end of a pole." (Alma 46:12) > > Here is the line. As a nation we must do nothing but defend these things. If we >want to open our doors to refugees from war torn parts of the world, great. If our >young men want to enlist in the national defense forces of these other nations, fine. > But our elected government has no right whatsoever to wage war for any other reason >than national defense. > > I believe that George W. Bush is mixed up in an organization that is much like the >Mafia, only far more wealthy and -- Marc A. Schindler Spruce Grove, Alberta, Canada -- Gateway to the Boreal Parkland "The greater danger for most of us lies not in setting our aim too high and falling short; but in setting our aim too low, and achieving our mark." --Michelangelo Buonarroti Note: This communication represents the informal personal views of the author solely; its contents do not necessarily reflect those of the authors employer, nor those of any organization with which the author may be associated. / /// ZION LIST CHARTER: Please read it at /// /// http://www.zionsbest.com/charter.html /// / ==^^=== This email was sent to: archive@jab.org EASY UNSUBSCRIBE click here: http://topica.com/u/?aaP9AU.bWix1n Or send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] T O P I C A -- Register now to manage your mail! http://www.topica.com/partner/tag02/register ==^^===
Re: [ZION] Tariffs and War
John can speak for himself, but since we agree quite closely on this issue, let me give my, unsolicited, answer, fwiw. Where would I draw the line in the sand? I wouldn't venture into the desert in the first place. I don't like snakes and scorpions. "It is into this kaleidoscope from hell that American forces rushed, too innocent to know the mistakes they were making. From a military point of view, the war was over in a trice; Americans are now home (more or less), the al-Sabahs are back in their palace, and the West thinks that's the end of it. However, this war is far from over, from the point of view of residents of the Middle East. Nothing is as it appears in the Middle East: when Egypt's Gammel Abdul Nasser was dealt what we thought was a humiliating defeat in the Six Days' War in June 1967, he was actually hailed as a hero in the Arab World. We don't understand why this should be so, but until we figure it out, we will continue making the same mistakes over and over. Unless we really enjoy cuddling up to snakes, we had best leave the countries of the region to sort out their own affairs. "As Latter-day Saints, we need to continue to support individual members of the armed forces (of all the countries where we live) and their families. However, we should also make our voices heard loudly and clearly: war is madness, and we repudiate Babylon. " [Marc A. Schindler, "Is There Such a Thing as a Moral War?", Dialogue: a Journal of Mormon Thought, Winter 1991: 160]; http://www.members.shaw.ca/mschindler/D/moral_war.htm Jon Spencer wrote: > John, I hesitate to get into this, but your rhetoric lately mystifies me. > What exactly do you mean by "pick a fight?" OK, you believe that President > Bush is lying and that he is out of control. Fine. You believe that no one > is out to get us (remember, even paranoids have enemies). Fine. You don't > believe that Saddam is helping terrorists. Fine. You don't believe that > even though Saddam used crop dusters to spread biological WOMM and the Al > Quaeda geeks here in the US were interested in crop dusters, that Saddam > would supply biological agents for these terrorists to use. Fine. OK, so > you believe that we must never do anything to protect liberty anywhere. > Fine. > > Everyone has a right to be wrong. But what, exactly, do you believe our > responsibilities to be, knowing that from whom much is given, much is > expected? Where is your line in the sand? > > Jon > > John W. Redelfs wrote: > > > Why would the USA lower its tariffs, allow most of its heavy industry to > relocate overseas, and become dependent on the rest of the world for almost > everything, and then get into a war? How would war with China affect > Wal-Mart? How would Wal-Mart going belly up affect our national economy? > I'm just curious why 1) we would make ourselves dependent on the rest of the > world for almost everything except computer software, and then 2) pick a > fight? > > / > /// ZION LIST CHARTER: Please read it at /// > /// http://www.zionsbest.com/charter.html /// > / > -- Marc A. Schindler Spruce Grove, Alberta, Canada -- Gateway to the Boreal Parkland "The greater danger for most of us lies not in setting our aim too high and falling short; but in setting our aim too low, and achieving our mark." --Michelangelo Buonarroti Note: This communication represents the informal personal views of the author solely; its contents do not necessarily reflect those of the authors employer, nor those of any organization with which the author may be associated. -- [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] / /// ZION LIST CHARTER: Please read it at /// /// http://www.zionsbest.com/charter.html /// / ==^^=== This email was sent to: archive@jab.org EASY UNSUBSCRIBE click here: http://topica.com/u/?aaP9AU.bWix1n Or send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] T O P I C A -- Register now to manage your mail! http://www.topica.com/partner/tag02/register ==^^===
Re: [ZION] Tariffs and War
At 09:04 10/2/2002 -0800, BLT wrote: >We don't even know who blew up the World Trade Center. Till thinks it was Elvis / /// ZION LIST CHARTER: Please read it at /// /// http://www.zionsbest.com/charter.html /// / ==^ This email was sent to: archive@jab.org EASY UNSUBSCRIBE click here: http://topica.com/u/?aaP9AU.bWix1n Or send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] T O P I C A -- Register now to manage your mail! http://www.topica.com/partner/tag02/register ==^
Re: [ZION] Tariffs and War
At 11:21 AM 10/2/02 -0600 Marc A. Schindler favored us with: >Because it's cheaper. It lowers the cost of consumer goods. I'll let you decide if >that's a good thing or not. Of course it is a good thing, but not if it means we will be dependent upon imports in a time of war. There are strategic industries that we must keep alive just in case we might need them. --JWR / /// ZION LIST CHARTER: Please read it at /// /// http://www.zionsbest.com/charter.html /// / ==^ This email was sent to: archive@jab.org EASY UNSUBSCRIBE click here: http://topica.com/u/?aaP9AU.bWix1n Or send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] T O P I C A -- Register now to manage your mail! http://www.topica.com/partner/tag02/register ==^
Re: [ZION] Tariffs and War
Because it's cheaper. It lowers the cost of consumer goods. I'll let you decide if that's a good thing or not. "John W. Redelfs" wrote: > Why would the USA lower its tariffs, allow most of its heavy industry to relocate >overseas, and become dependent on the rest of the world for almost everything, and >then get into a war? How would war with China affect Wal-Mart? How would Wal-Mart >going belly up affect our national economy? I'm just curious why 1) we would make >ourselves dependent on the rest of the world for almost everything except computer >software, and then 2) pick a fight? > > John W. Redelfs [EMAIL PROTECTED] > -- Marc A. Schindler Spruce Grove, Alberta, Canada -- Gateway to the Boreal Parkland "The greater danger for most of us lies not in setting our aim too high and falling short; but in setting our aim too low, and achieving our mark." --Michelangelo Buonarroti Note: This communication represents the informal personal views of the author solely; its contents do not necessarily reflect those of the authors employer, nor those of any organization with which the author may be associated. / /// ZION LIST CHARTER: Please read it at /// /// http://www.zionsbest.com/charter.html /// / ==^^=== This email was sent to: archive@jab.org EASY UNSUBSCRIBE click here: http://topica.com/u/?aaP9AU.bWix1n Or send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] T O P I C A -- Register now to manage your mail! http://www.topica.com/partner/tag02/register ==^^===
Re: [ZION] Tariffs and War
At 12:22 PM 10/2/02 -0400 Jon Spencer favored us with: >Everyone has a right to be wrong. But what, exactly, do you believe our >responsibilities to be, knowing that from whom much is given, much is expected? >Where is your line in the sand? "And it came to pass that he rent his coat; and he took a piece thereof, and wrote upon itIn memory of our God, our religion, and freedom, and our peace, our wives, and our childrenand he fastened it upon the end of a pole." (Alma 46:12) Here is the line. As a nation we must do nothing but defend these things. If we want to open our doors to refugees from war torn parts of the world, great. If our young men want to enlist in the national defense forces of these other nations, fine. But our elected government has no right whatsoever to wage war for any other reason than national defense. I believe that George W. Bush is mixed up in an organization that is much like the Mafia, only far more wealthy and powerful. He himself might be a fine man with a wonderful family. But he is not at liberty to govern as he sees fit. He has to obey orders. The same people who put him in office are the ones to whom he owes allegiance. And he cannot be expected to act in the best interests of our nation except where those interests coincide with the powerful men who helped him into office. And apparently the men who control President Bush now want a war with Iraq. Well I don't. If we declare war on anybody, it should be this criminal conspiracy that has gained control of our government. Saddam Hussein has committed no aggression against the USA. He may be evil, but he is not that stupid. He hates us, but no more than a hundred other nations. If we fight him it will not be for our God, religion, wives, children and liberty. It will be to further the designs of powerful men, men who have excessive influence in our government and excessive influence in our media. A war does not serve the national interest unless you want to define national interest as "Whatever is good for General Motors is good for the country." The men who are promoting this war will not have their sons on the front line. And my son turns 19 in 5 months. I want him to serve a mission, marry in the temple, and raise a family to the Lord. I do not want him dying on some foreign battlefield. If he must die in combat, I want it to be right here on our sacred soil, defending it from those who would combine against us. Our government has no business trying to police the world. Saddam isn't the only Bad Guy on the planet, and we can't fight them all. We have never been able to fight them all. It is hubris to suppose we can. Let's arrest bin Laden and see him on the gallows along with all his top lieutenants. Then maybe we can think of other projects. Until I see bin Laden or his body, I will consider any use of our military overseas a private project serving the interests not of our nation but of certain wealthy and powerful men, a private project being funded by the American taxpayer. Didn't we learn anything in Vietnam? The tragedy of Vietnam isn't that we lost. It isn't that 60,000 of our finest young men never came home. It isn't that we left thousands of POWs behind. The tragedy of Vietnam is that we didn't accomplish a thing. It was a war fought for no good reason. Just what national benefit do you think we will obtain from fighting Saddam? Who are we defending that will be benefited? Every one of the Islamic nations hates us as much as Saddam does. None of them are democracies. They are all trying to obtain weapons of mass destruction. Do you think that Khadafy or any of the other dictators in the region are worth a single drop of American blood? And why should our nation be in the business of propping up dictatorships all over the world anyway? How does that serve our national interest? Does it make these nations love us better? I don't think so. I know that I'm whipping a dead horse. But I served in the US Marines during the beginnings of the Vietnam war. And I hated hippies and street protestors. I wanted to go over there and kill all those gooks. And since then I have found out that I was completely wrong. I was deceived by people in my own government who never had any intention of winning that war. And until the men who did that, and the secret societies that they belong to, are rooted out of our nation, I will oppose with every fiber of my being any warfare except what is fought on our own soil by an invading enemy. We don't even know who blew up the World Trade Center. John W. Redelfs [EMAIL PROTECTED] * For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high [places]. (Ephesians 6:12)
Re: [ZION] Tariffs and War
John, I hesitate to get into this, but your rhetoric lately mystifies me. What exactly do you mean by "pick a fight?" OK, you believe that President Bush is lying and that he is out of control. Fine. You believe that no one is out to get us (remember, even paranoids have enemies). Fine. You don't believe that Saddam is helping terrorists. Fine. You don't believe that even though Saddam used crop dusters to spread biological WOMM and the Al Quaeda geeks here in the US were interested in crop dusters, that Saddam would supply biological agents for these terrorists to use. Fine. OK, so you believe that we must never do anything to protect liberty anywhere. Fine. Everyone has a right to be wrong. But what, exactly, do you believe our responsibilities to be, knowing that from whom much is given, much is expected? Where is your line in the sand? Jon John W. Redelfs wrote: > Why would the USA lower its tariffs, allow most of its heavy industry to relocate overseas, and become dependent on the rest of the world for almost everything, and then get into a war? How would war with China affect Wal-Mart? How would Wal-Mart going belly up affect our national economy? I'm just curious why 1) we would make ourselves dependent on the rest of the world for almost everything except computer software, and then 2) pick a fight? / /// ZION LIST CHARTER: Please read it at /// /// http://www.zionsbest.com/charter.html /// / ==^ This email was sent to: archive@jab.org EASY UNSUBSCRIBE click here: http://topica.com/u/?aaP9AU.bWix1n Or send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] T O P I C A -- Register now to manage your mail! http://www.topica.com/partner/tag02/register ==^
[ZION] Tariffs and War
Why would the USA lower its tariffs, allow most of its heavy industry to relocate overseas, and become dependent on the rest of the world for almost everything, and then get into a war? How would war with China affect Wal-Mart? How would Wal-Mart going belly up affect our national economy? I'm just curious why 1) we would make ourselves dependent on the rest of the world for almost everything except computer software, and then 2) pick a fight? John W. Redelfs [EMAIL PROTECTED] * For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high [places]. (Ephesians 6:12) * "All my opinions are tentative pending further data." --JWR / /// ZION LIST CHARTER: Please read it at /// /// http://www.zionsbest.com/charter.html /// / ==^ This email was sent to: archive@jab.org EASY UNSUBSCRIBE click here: http://topica.com/u/?aaP9AU.bWix1n Or send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] T O P I C A -- Register now to manage your mail! http://www.topica.com/partner/tag02/register ==^
