Re: [Zope-dev] Re: [Zope3-dev] Zope and zope
Jim Fulton wrote: Jim Fulton wrote: The first question is: Is it a problem to have two packages with names differing only in case? +1 -- - Michael R. Bernstein michaelbernstein.com Author of Zope Bible ___ Zope-Dev maillist - [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-dev ** No cross posts or HTML encoding! ** (Related lists - http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-announce http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope )
[Zope-dev] Re: [Zope3-dev] Zope and zope
Jim Fulton wrote: Zope 2 has a package named Zope. Zope 3 has a package named zope. Starting with Zope 2.8, parts of Zope 3 will be included in Zope 2. As things stand, this will require having both Zope and zope packages. Python can handle this fine, however, it will require putting the packages in separate directories (for Windows). A typical Zope installation will probably add at least two directories to the Python path, for: - The Zope software - Instance (site) specific packages So adding two directories, rather than one for the Zope software isn't a big deal. Of course, having two packages with names differing only in case is a bit ugly. Do we want to consider renaming one or both of these packages to avoid the conflict? I should have been clearer. The first question is: Is it a problem to have two packages with names differing only in case? I haven't gotten as many responses on this as I expected. I'll try to summarize so far: - Chris feels strongly that this is a problem - I've been swayed by Chris' response from neutral to thinking that this is a problem. - Tres seems not to think this is a problem, but I'm not sure. - Fred doesn't seem to think this is a problem. - I can't tell from Robert's and Stephans responses whether they think this is a problem or not. Perhaps we can get more input on whether there's a problem. A response with a positive sign (e.g. +1, +0, +2, ...) indicates agreement that this is a probelm. :) Jim -- Jim Fulton mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Python Powered! CTO (540) 361-1714http://www.python.org Zope Corporation http://www.zope.com http://www.zope.org ___ Zope-Dev maillist - [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-dev ** No cross posts or HTML encoding! ** (Related lists - http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-announce http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope )
Re: [Zope-dev] Re: [Zope3-dev] Zope and zope
On Wed, 2004-04-14 at 09:00, Jim Fulton wrote: The first question is: Is it a problem to have two packages with names differing only in case? snip Perhaps we can get more input on whether there's a problem. A response with a positive sign (e.g. +1, +0, +2, ...) indicates agreement that this is a probelm. :) +1 its probably a problem imo for mac users who are on a case insensitive fs. none of the alternative seem all that appealing though.. the comment about most z3 imports being prefixed with zope, suggests that any backwards porting with a goal of forward compatibility will require changing the existing z2 Zope package to something else, although sticking version numbers on package names doesn't hold much appeal for me. perhaps renaming z2 Zope-Core -kapil ___ Zope-Dev maillist - [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-dev ** No cross posts or HTML encoding! ** (Related lists - http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-announce http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope )
Re: [Zope-dev] Re: [Zope3-dev] Zope and zope
Kapil Thangavelu wrote: On Wed, 2004-04-14 at 09:00, Jim Fulton wrote: The first question is: Is it a problem to have two packages with names differing only in case? snip Perhaps we can get more input on whether there's a problem. A response with a positive sign (e.g. +1, +0, +2, ...) indicates agreement that this is a probelm. :) +1 its probably a problem imo for mac users who are on a case insensitive fs. none of the alternative seem all that appealing though.. Thanks for the input. I'd prefer to defer discussion on alternatives until we determine whether there is a problem we want to fix. Jim -- Jim Fulton mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Python Powered! CTO (540) 361-1714http://www.python.org Zope Corporation http://www.zope.com http://www.zope.org ___ Zope-Dev maillist - [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-dev ** No cross posts or HTML encoding! ** (Related lists - http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-announce http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope )
Re: [Zope-dev] Re: [Zope3-dev] Zope and zope
On Wednesday 14 April 2004 09:54 am, Kapil Thangavelu wrote: its probably a problem imo for mac users who are on a case insensitive fs. Is this still an issue for Mac OS X, or is your concern for classic Mac OS? I don't know if we support that (simply because I've never heard anyone mention it). none of the alternative seem all that appealing though.. the comment No, they don't. The current Zope 3 naming for modules and packages mostly follows the current BDFL recommendations, which is nice, and is friendly to to those of use alergic to upper case letters. It also works well for case-senseless filesystems. about most z3 imports being prefixed with zope, suggests that any backwards porting with a goal of forward compatibility will require changing the existing z2 Zope package to something else, although sticking version numbers on package names doesn't hold much appeal for me. perhaps renaming z2 Zope-Core The Zope 2 Zope package is actually quite small. Perhaps renaming it is the best approach. In spite of Tres's objection, I don't see how there could be all that much code that references it. Perhaps it's referenced by some persistent objects? There's an uncertain comment in Zope.ClassFactory, and Zope.App.ClassFactory might be referenced, but otherwise the Zope package contains startup code. -Fred -- Fred L. Drake, Jr. fred at zope.com PythonLabs at Zope Corporation ___ Zope-Dev maillist - [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-dev ** No cross posts or HTML encoding! ** (Related lists - http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-announce http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope )
[Zope-dev] Re: [Zope3-dev] Zope and zope
-1, it is not really a problem. As Chris pointed out, this will be hard to explain in documentation, but I think it will not be as big of a pain as requiring 3rd parties to change their code (this is for both, Zope 2 and 3). Furthermore, I really dislike the option of renaming zope in Zope 3 to something else. If you have a directory structure like lib/python Zope zope3/zope where both, 'lib/python' and 'lib/python/zope3' are in the path, then this is pretty obvious. I think that only advanced Zope 2.8+ programmers will want to use both Zope 2 and 3 functionality, so that educating them about this is much easier than educating the scripter. Regards, Stephan On Wednesday 14 April 2004 09:00, Jim Fulton wrote: Jim Fulton wrote: Zope 2 has a package named Zope. Zope 3 has a package named zope. Starting with Zope 2.8, parts of Zope 3 will be included in Zope 2. As things stand, this will require having both Zope and zope packages. Python can handle this fine, however, it will require putting the packages in separate directories (for Windows). A typical Zope installation will probably add at least two directories to the Python path, for: - The Zope software - Instance (site) specific packages So adding two directories, rather than one for the Zope software isn't a big deal. Of course, having two packages with names differing only in case is a bit ugly. Do we want to consider renaming one or both of these packages to avoid the conflict? I should have been clearer. The first question is: Is it a problem to have two packages with names differing only in case? I haven't gotten as many responses on this as I expected. I'll try to summarize so far: - Chris feels strongly that this is a problem - I've been swayed by Chris' response from neutral to thinking that this is a problem. - Tres seems not to think this is a problem, but I'm not sure. - Fred doesn't seem to think this is a problem. - I can't tell from Robert's and Stephans responses whether they think this is a problem or not. Perhaps we can get more input on whether there's a problem. A response with a positive sign (e.g. +1, +0, +2, ...) indicates agreement that this is a probelm. :) Jim -- Stephan Richter CBU Physics Chemistry (B.S.) / Tufts Physics (Ph.D. student) Web2k - Web Software Design, Development and Training ___ Zope-Dev maillist - [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-dev ** No cross posts or HTML encoding! ** (Related lists - http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-announce http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope )
[Zope-dev] Re: [Zope3-dev] Zope and zope
Jim Fulton wrote: Jim Fulton wrote: ... I should have been clearer. The first question is: Is it a problem to have two packages with names differing only in case? I haven't gotten as many responses on this as I expected. I'll try to summarize Wrong. People don't find the question useful. Give the responses. I need to recast my question as a selection among alternatives. But, before I do that, we will need to consider alternatives a bit more. - Chris feels strongly that this is a problem - I've been swayed by Chris' response from neutral to thinking that this is a problem. In talking about this with Casey, Fred and Barry here, we thought of another problem with the status quo. The standard Python library has a module, pkgutil that facilitates spreading container packages like zope over multiple directories on the Python path. Thia facilitates installing zope-project packages in different places. Without this, container packages become very unsttractive. It turns out that pkgutil will be confused by the Zope package on Windows or Mac OS, adding it's directory to the zope package's path. This is a bug in pkgutil that can be fixed, but it is an example of the sorts of problems we can expect. In addition, haveing two packages with the same name makes it hard to talk about them verbally. One has to qualify the names, as in big zope or little zope. Jim -- Jim Fulton mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Python Powered! CTO (540) 361-1714http://www.python.org Zope Corporation http://www.zope.com http://www.zope.org ___ Zope-Dev maillist - [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-dev ** No cross posts or HTML encoding! ** (Related lists - http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-announce http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope )
Re: [Zope-dev] Re: [Zope3-dev] Zope and zope
Jim Fulton wrote: The first question is: Is it a problem to have two packages with names differing only in case? +1 A response with a positive sign (e.g. +1, +0, +2, ...) indicates agreement that this is a probelm. :) Jim Andrew -- Zope Corporation Software Engineer (540) 361-1700 ___ Zope-Dev maillist - [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-dev ** No cross posts or HTML encoding! ** (Related lists - http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-announce http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope )
[Zope-dev] Re: [Zope3-dev] Zope and zope
Jim Fulton wrote: ... Give the responses. I need to recast my question as a selection among alternatives. But, before I do that, we will need to consider alternatives a bit more. OK, here's another. What about renaming the Zope 3 zope package to z. - It fits with the expansion of Zope: Z Object Publishing Environment. - It's short :) - *At this time* (but after the move to svn), it's not too hard to make a change like this for Zope 3. Backward compatibility is not a big issue. This will change when X3.0 is released, which is why I'm bothering to deal with this now. - This was suggested a couple of years ago when coming up with the Zope 3 package layout. Examples (from the buddydemo example): import z.interface from z.app import zapi from z.app.event import publish from z.app.event.objectevent import ObjectModifiedEvent Jim -- Jim Fulton mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Python Powered! CTO (540) 361-1714http://www.python.org Zope Corporation http://www.zope.com http://www.zope.org ___ Zope-Dev maillist - [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-dev ** No cross posts or HTML encoding! ** (Related lists - http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-announce http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope )
[Zope-dev] Re: [Zope3-dev] Zope and zope
On Wed, Apr 14, 2004 at 11:06:37AM -0400, Jim Fulton wrote: What about renaming the Zope 3 zope package to z. Examples (from the buddydemo example): import z.interface from z.app import zapi from z.app.event import publish from z.app.event.objectevent import ObjectModifiedEvent -1 for purely aesthetic reasons (IOW, I'm used to zope.something). Marius Gedminas P.S. I used to think ZOPE was a recursive acronym for the ZOPE Object Publishing Environment. wink -- Favorite MS-DOS error message: Drive C: not ready, close door. signature.asc Description: Digital signature ___ Zope-Dev maillist - [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-dev ** No cross posts or HTML encoding! ** (Related lists - http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-announce http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope )
[Zope-dev] Re: [Zope3-dev] Zope and zope
On Wednesday 14 April 2004 10:52 am, Jim Fulton wrote: packages become very unsttractive. It turns out that pkgutil will be confused by the Zope package on Windows or Mac OS, adding it's directory to the zope package's path. This is a bug in pkgutil that can be fixed, but it is an example of the sorts of problems we can expect. I've filed a bug report on pkgutil: http://www.python.org/sf/935117 -Fred -- Fred L. Drake, Jr. fred at zope.com PythonLabs at Zope Corporation ___ Zope-Dev maillist - [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-dev ** No cross posts or HTML encoding! ** (Related lists - http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-announce http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope )
[Zope-dev] Re: [Zope3-dev] Zope and zope
Marius Gedminas wrote: On Wed, Apr 14, 2004 at 11:06:37AM -0400, Jim Fulton wrote: What about renaming the Zope 3 zope package to z. Examples (from the buddydemo example): import z.interface from z.app import zapi from z.app.event import publish from z.app.event.objectevent import ObjectModifiedEvent -1 for purely aesthetic reasons (IOW, I'm used to zope.something). Is this really just a matter of what you're used to? If you didn't have lots of experience typing zope, would typing z instead really bother you? I actually like the z by itself. Perhaps because it echos the circle z. I think I also like it because it seems to add less noise to the import lines. For example, I think I actually prefer: import z.interface from z.app import zapi from z.app.event import publish from z.app.event.objectevent import ObjectModifiedEvent to: import zope.interface from zope.app import zapi from zope.app.event import publish from zope.app.event.objectevent import ObjectModifiedEvent Jim -- Jim Fulton mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Python Powered! CTO (540) 361-1714http://www.python.org Zope Corporation http://www.zope.com http://www.zope.org ___ Zope-Dev maillist - [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-dev ** No cross posts or HTML encoding! ** (Related lists - http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-announce http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope )
