Re: [Zope-dev] Re: Renamed the Zope package to Zope2 and including Zope 3 packages in Zope 2.8
Dieter Maurer wrote: Martijn Faassen wrote at 2005-2-2 19:09 +0100: ... What other use cases are floating around? The CMF user group would like to use Zope3's events and subscriptions to make creation, deletion and modification interception more flexible. Yes, those are definitely useful. I mean, I don't doubt there are use cases for something like Five, I'm talking about use cases for moving Zope 3 packages into Zope 2. Presumably you'd like to be able to subscribe to events and the like, so does that mean Zope 2 needs ZCML too? You quickly get very close to Five territory then. Me, too, I am very interested in object creation/deletion/modification events for a loose coupled architecture involving content, associations, workflow -- all interfacing with one another via the above mentioned events. Part of the Zope 3 event story is actually already implemented in Five, though not tested a lot as far as I know. Regards, Martijn ___ Zope-Dev maillist - Zope-Dev@zope.org http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-dev ** No cross posts or HTML encoding! ** (Related lists - http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-announce http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope )
Re: [Zope-dev] Re: Renamed the Zope package to Zope2 and including Zope 3 packages in Zope 2.8
Martijn Faassen wrote at 2005-2-2 19:09 +0100: > ... >What other use cases are floating around? The CMF user group would like to use Zope3's events and subscriptions to make creation, deletion and modification interception more flexible. Me, too, I am very interested in object creation/deletion/modification events for a loose coupled architecture involving content, associations, workflow -- all interfacing with one another via the above mentioned events. -- Dieter ___ Zope-Dev maillist - Zope-Dev@zope.org http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-dev ** No cross posts or HTML encoding! ** (Related lists - http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-announce http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope )
Re: [Zope-dev] Re: Renamed the Zope package to Zope2 and including Zope 3 packages in Zope 2.8
--On Mittwoch, 2. Februar 2005 19:28 Uhr +0100 Lennart Regebro <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: I agree. Get Zope 2.8 out now and then we can work on the Z3 integration in 2.9, preferrably merging Five into 2.9 completely. That integration should be rather easy, as Five is already in a workable state, and it's mostly a case of making copy zope.* to Zope2. Or am I missing something? +1 to defer the integration of Z3 technologies until 2.9. It would be nice to have this stuff in Z2 soon but the more important thing is to get a reasonable and stable 2.8 asap because people are waiting for MVCC which is a very important feature - more important than providing than built-in support for Five (which can be added manually by people interested working with Five). -aj ___ Zope-Dev maillist - Zope-Dev@zope.org http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-dev ** No cross posts or HTML encoding! ** (Related lists - http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-announce http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope )
Re: [Zope-dev] Re: Renamed the Zope package to Zope2 and including Zope 3 packages in Zope 2.8
Martijn Faassen wrote: Anyway, more work for Five developers doesn't mean this shouldn't happen, but perhaps a review of the use cases driving this would be helpful. If it's really only about making ZClasses work in Zope 2.8, is this really the only way forward? If not, I'd prefer to stick to the original plan, and wait for Zope 2.9 before Zope 3 integration starts to happen. I agree. Get Zope 2.8 out now and then we can work on the Z3 integration in 2.9, preferrably merging Five into 2.9 completely. That integration should be rather easy, as Five is already in a workable state, and it's mostly a case of making copy zope.* to Zope2. Or am I missing something? (The renaming Jim did is fine, of course). -- Lennart Regebro, Nuxeo http://www.nuxeo.com/ CPS Content Management http://www.cps-project.org/ ___ Zope-Dev maillist - Zope-Dev@zope.org http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-dev ** No cross posts or HTML encoding! ** (Related lists - http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-announce http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope )
Re: [Zope-dev] Re: Renamed the Zope package to Zope2 and including Zope 3 packages in Zope 2.8
Jim Fulton wrote: Lennart Regebro wrote: [snip] I'm leaning more towards realeasing 2,8 now, and skipping this renaming thing alltogether. But then, I don't know your reason for wanting to do it in Zope 2.8, which I expect is a really good one (it usually is). I want zope.interface and zope.testing. I'm willing to include other things as long as it doesn't require more than an "svn cp" and if people will find it useful. As little as possible would be preferable in that case, I think. The more is included, the more likely there's version skew. Regards, Martijn ___ Zope-Dev maillist - Zope-Dev@zope.org http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-dev ** No cross posts or HTML encoding! ** (Related lists - http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-announce http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope )
Re: [Zope-dev] Re: Renamed the Zope package to Zope2 and including Zope 3 packages in Zope 2.8
Jim Fulton wrote: Would it make sense to have Zope 2.8 include all of the packages below other than zope.app and for Five to supply it's own zope.app? It would make life harder for Five, and create more work for us, as we'd have to worry about: * shipping a zope.app ourselves (does it contain binaries? will it ever contain binaries? Right now we can just lift along ZopeX3 releases) * we'd have to worry about version skew. Suddenly we're locked into whatever versions of the Zope 3 code is in Zope 2.8 and whatever version of zope.app that works with that version. Right now Five is completely free to track ZopeX3 releases and there is no worry about version skew. If there is a knob to turn off anything Zope 2.8 ships then life would be a bit harder for people installing Five, as it'd need an extra zope.conf switch besides the path to Zope 3 that already needs to be there. It's doable to document this though. As to Five, this whole exercise, no matter what packages are copied, only makes life harder, not easier. I was looking to go this way (including more zope 3 stuff into zope 2) a year ago, and decided I couldn't make progress that way, as I had to wait for all kinds of things I couldn't control easily, like Zope 2.8 and the Zope 2+3 interface compatibility package. Then I got to liberate zope.interface from the one incompatibility that really prevented Five. After that, Five was ready to be freely developed, independent of the unpredictability of Zope 2 *or* Zope 3 releases. Any addition of Zope 3 code to Zope 2 will make life harder there. I understand that for a future version of Zope 2, Zope 3 code will be included. I understand one direct use case is some Zope 3 persistence system that can be used to help with ZClasses. I understand one other set of use cases is to make it possible to start using Zope 3 technology in Zope 2 (this use case could also be fulfilled by something like Five). I can also see an ease of deployment use case -- no huge Zope 3 package to download and install separately. Then again, such a separation between the projects does make life easier sometimes, as is evidenced by the trouble Five would get in with more mixing. What other use cases are floating around? I cannot judge how likely version skew is between zope.app and the parts of the zope package that will be in Zope 2.8. Anyway, more work for Five developers doesn't mean this shouldn't happen, but perhaps a review of the use cases driving this would be helpful. If it's really only about making ZClasses work in Zope 2.8, is this really the only way forward? If not, I'd prefer to stick to the original plan, and wait for Zope 2.9 before Zope 3 integration starts to happen. Regards, Martijn ___ Zope-Dev maillist - Zope-Dev@zope.org http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-dev ** No cross posts or HTML encoding! ** (Related lists - http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-announce http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope )
Re: [Zope-dev] Re: Renamed the Zope package to Zope2 and including Zope 3 packages in Zope 2.8
Lennart Regebro wrote: Jim Fulton wrote: P.S. We definately want zope.testing too. I'm surprised that Five isn't using it. Well, I didn't grep the tests directory. ;) I'm leaning more towards realeasing 2,8 now, and skipping this renaming thing alltogether. But then, I don't know your reason for wanting to do it in Zope 2.8, which I expect is a really good one (it usually is). I want zope.interface and zope.testing. I'm willing to include other things as long as it doesn't require more than an "svn cp" and if people will find it useful. Jim -- Jim Fulton mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Python Powered! CTO (540) 361-1714http://www.python.org Zope Corporation http://www.zope.com http://www.zope.org ___ Zope-Dev maillist - Zope-Dev@zope.org http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-dev ** No cross posts or HTML encoding! ** (Related lists - http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-announce http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope )
Re: [Zope-dev] Re: Renamed the Zope package to Zope2 and including Zope 3 packages in Zope 2.8
Jim Fulton wrote: P.S. We definately want zope.testing too. I'm surprised that Five isn't using it. Well, I didn't grep the tests directory. ;) I'm leaning more towards realeasing 2,8 now, and skipping this renaming thing alltogether. But then, I don't know your reason for wanting to do it in Zope 2.8, which I expect is a really good one (it usually is). -- Lennart Regebro, Nuxeo http://www.nuxeo.com/ CPS Content Management http://www.cps-project.org/ ___ Zope-Dev maillist - Zope-Dev@zope.org http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-dev ** No cross posts or HTML encoding! ** (Related lists - http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-announce http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope )
Re: [Zope-dev] Re: Renamed the Zope package to Zope2 and including Zope 3 packages in Zope 2.8
Would it make sense to have Zope 2.8 include all of the packages below other than zope.app and for Five to supply it's own zope.app? Jim P.S. We definately want zope.testing too. I'm surprised that Five isn't using it. Lennart Regebro wrote: Christian Heimes wrote: Zope 2.8 should be shipped with all stuff required for Five + some nice gimmicks like the import* helpers from utilities/. Here are the modules currently directly imported by Five. I'm not counting the things that these modules in turn import: zope.app zope.app.component.interface zope.app.component.metaconfigure zope.app.container.contained zope.app.container.interfaces zope.app.datetimeutils zope.app.event.objectevent zope.app.form.browser.metaconfigure zope.app.form.browser.submit zope.app.form.interfaces zope.app.form.utility zope.app.location zope.app.location.interfaces zope.app.pagetemplate.viewpagetemplatefile zope.app.publisher.browser.globalbrowsermenuservice zope.app.publisher.browser.metadirectives zope.app.publisher.browser.resources zope.app.publisher.browser.viewmeta zope.app.publisher.fileresource zope.app.publisher.pagetemplateresource zope.app.security.interfaces zope.app.traversing.adapters zope.app.traversing.browser.interfaces zope.app.traversing.interfaces zope.component zope.component.factory zope.component.interfaces zope.component.servicenames zope.configuration zope.configuration.exceptions zope.configuration.fields zope.event zope.exceptions zope.interface zope.interface.common.mapping zope.interface.interface zope.interface.interfaces zope.publisher.interfaces.browser zope.schema zope.security.checker zope.security.management zope.tales.pythonexpr -- Jim Fulton mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Python Powered! CTO (540) 361-1714http://www.python.org Zope Corporation http://www.zope.com http://www.zope.org ___ Zope-Dev maillist - Zope-Dev@zope.org http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-dev ** No cross posts or HTML encoding! ** (Related lists - http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-announce http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope )
Re: [Zope-dev] Re: Renamed the Zope package to Zope2 and including Zope 3 packages in Zope 2.8
Christian Heimes wrote: Zope 2.8 should be shipped with all stuff required for Five + some nice gimmicks like the import* helpers from utilities/. Here are the modules currently directly imported by Five. I'm not counting the things that these modules in turn import: zope.app zope.app.component.interface zope.app.component.metaconfigure zope.app.container.contained zope.app.container.interfaces zope.app.datetimeutils zope.app.event.objectevent zope.app.form.browser.metaconfigure zope.app.form.browser.submit zope.app.form.interfaces zope.app.form.utility zope.app.location zope.app.location.interfaces zope.app.pagetemplate.viewpagetemplatefile zope.app.publisher.browser.globalbrowsermenuservice zope.app.publisher.browser.metadirectives zope.app.publisher.browser.resources zope.app.publisher.browser.viewmeta zope.app.publisher.fileresource zope.app.publisher.pagetemplateresource zope.app.security.interfaces zope.app.traversing.adapters zope.app.traversing.browser.interfaces zope.app.traversing.interfaces zope.component zope.component.factory zope.component.interfaces zope.component.servicenames zope.configuration zope.configuration.exceptions zope.configuration.fields zope.event zope.exceptions zope.interface zope.interface.common.mapping zope.interface.interface zope.interface.interfaces zope.publisher.interfaces.browser zope.schema zope.security.checker zope.security.management zope.tales.pythonexpr -- Lennart Regebro, Nuxeo http://www.nuxeo.com/ CPS Content Management http://www.cps-project.org/ ___ Zope-Dev maillist - Zope-Dev@zope.org http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-dev ** No cross posts or HTML encoding! ** (Related lists - http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-announce http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope )
Re: [Zope-dev] Re: Renamed the Zope package to Zope2 and including Zope 3 packages in Zope 2.8
Christian Heimes wrote: Jim Fulton wrote: Originally, I had intended not to include any Zope 3 packages until Zope 2.9, however, Zope 2.8 has been delayed long enough that I think it makes sense to include some parts of Zope 3 sooner. I also want to use some of the Zope 3 persistent code support, which depends on zope.interface to help get ZClasses working again. I haven't decided which parts of Zope 3 should be included in Zope 2.8 and would like to get input. If you have suggestions on what to include or exclude, please respond here or on the z3-file list, where I am also posting this message. Zope 2.8 should be shipped with all stuff required for Five + some nice gimmicks like the import* helpers from utilities/. I wish people much luck detaching the stuff required for Five from Zope 3. I'm certainly not going to waste any time on doing so. zope.interface - Zope3 interfaces are much better than the zope2 stuff zope.component - important for five zope.i18n + zope.i18nmessage - especially the l10n is very useful, also gotcha is working on a way to translate MessageIds in Zope2's ZPublisher. See PlacelessTranslationService Z3MsgId branch (I can't remember the excact name) zope.configuration - zcml is nice zope.importtool - for importtool and importorder, please also include importchecker in ZOPE_HOME/bin. I like it :) zope.schema These modules are easy to add w/o shipping Zope2 with a full installation of Zope3. Much harder but even useful are modules from zope.app like adapter, apidoc, event or the widget stuff for zope.schema. For Five, you're going to need very significant parts of zope.app. Personally zope.interface and zope.component are the most important and also useful thing I would like to see in Zope2. Any reason these cannot be distributed as a Zope product? Regards, Martijn ___ Zope-Dev maillist - Zope-Dev@zope.org http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-dev ** No cross posts or HTML encoding! ** (Related lists - http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-announce http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope )
[Zope-dev] Re: Renamed the Zope package to Zope2 and including Zope 3 packages in Zope 2.8
Jim Fulton wrote: Originally, I had intended not to include any Zope 3 packages until Zope 2.9, however, Zope 2.8 has been delayed long enough that I think it makes sense to include some parts of Zope 3 sooner. I also want to use some of the Zope 3 persistent code support, which depends on zope.interface to help get ZClasses working again. I haven't decided which parts of Zope 3 should be included in Zope 2.8 and would like to get input. If you have suggestions on what to include or exclude, please respond here or on the z3-file list, where I am also posting this message. Zope 2.8 should be shipped with all stuff required for Five + some nice gimmicks like the import* helpers from utilities/. zope.interface - Zope3 interfaces are much better than the zope2 stuff zope.component - important for five zope.i18n + zope.i18nmessage - especially the l10n is very useful, also gotcha is working on a way to translate MessageIds in Zope2's ZPublisher. See PlacelessTranslationService Z3MsgId branch (I can't remember the excact name) zope.configuration - zcml is nice zope.importtool - for importtool and importorder, please also include importchecker in ZOPE_HOME/bin. I like it :) zope.schema These modules are easy to add w/o shipping Zope2 with a full installation of Zope3. Much harder but even useful are modules from zope.app like adapter, apidoc, event or the widget stuff for zope.schema. Personally zope.interface and zope.component are the most important and also useful thing I would like to see in Zope2. Christian ___ Zope-Dev maillist - Zope-Dev@zope.org http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-dev ** No cross posts or HTML encoding! ** (Related lists - http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-announce http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope )
