Re: [Zope-dev] Re: default view
Dieter Maurer wrote:
> Philipp von Weitershausen wrote at 2006-6-22 09:03 +0200:
>> Dieter Maurer wrote:
>> ...
>>> If you are working on it, then you should implement a
>>> means that "__bobo_traverse__" can tell the caller that
>>> it should use the normal default.
>> ...
>>> In our private Zope version, I have used an exception
>>> ("UseTraversalDefault") for this purpose.
>> I think that __bobo_traverse__ can raise AttributeError currently to
>> indicate that it has failed to look up an attribute and that traversal
>> should try other options. Apart from being a more explicit spelling,
>> what advantage would UseTraversalDefault have?
>
> First of all, I had expected that you were in favour
> of "explicit is better than implicit" (usually, I am not). In this case,
> you should be happy with a "more explicit spelling" ;-)
Don't get me wrong, I am :).
> I do not know the current code in Zope 2.10, but earlier
> it looked like:
>
> if hasattr(object,'__bobo_traverse__'):
Btw, I think this should be a gettattr() call here, hasattr eats exceptions.
> try:
> subobject=object.__bobo_traverse__(request,entry_name)
> ...
> except (AttributeError, KeyError):
> if debug_mode:
> return response.debugError(
> "Cannot locate object at: %s" % URL)
> else:
> return response.notFoundError(URL)
>
>
> With this code, you were only partially right:
Right, I stand corrected. I have no problem with a more explicit
spelling; I didn't even have one in the first place, was just wondering
what advantage UseTraversalDefault would have (see my original inquiry
above).
We just need to be careful about BBB, as Tres pointed out. The whole
__bobo_traverse__ mess makes me wonder whether it's worth to improve at
all. After all, with IPublishTraverse adapters being a first class
citizen now in ZPublisher, we could, well, leave __bobo_traverse__ as it
is, deprecate it and let it rod till eternity?
Philipp
___
Zope-Dev maillist - Zope-Dev@zope.org
http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-dev
** No cross posts or HTML encoding! **
(Related lists -
http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-announce
http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope )
Re: [Zope-dev] Re: default view
Philipp von Weitershausen wrote at 2006-6-22 09:03 +0200:
>Dieter Maurer wrote:
> ...
>> If you are working on it, then you should implement a
>> means that "__bobo_traverse__" can tell the caller that
>> it should use the normal default.
> ...
>> In our private Zope version, I have used an exception
>> ("UseTraversalDefault") for this purpose.
>
>I think that __bobo_traverse__ can raise AttributeError currently to
>indicate that it has failed to look up an attribute and that traversal
>should try other options. Apart from being a more explicit spelling,
>what advantage would UseTraversalDefault have?
First of all, I had expected that you were in favour
of "explicit is better than implicit" (usually, I am not). In this case,
you should be happy with a "more explicit spelling" ;-)
I do not know the current code in Zope 2.10, but earlier
it looked like:
if hasattr(object,'__bobo_traverse__'):
try:
subobject=object.__bobo_traverse__(request,entry_name)
...
except (AttributeError, KeyError):
if debug_mode:
return response.debugError(
"Cannot locate object at: %s" % URL)
else:
return response.notFoundError(URL)
With this code, you were only partially right:
"__bobo_traverse__" could indeed raise an "AttributeError"
to do something special -- but not to get the default
traversal but to get a "NotFound" or a "DebugError" exception.
That's quite different from what I proposed ;-)
Should you prefer the implicit use of "AttributeError"
over a more explicit use (the "UseTraversalDefault" was only
some possibility; I am happy, if you find something better
-- but equally explicit) to get the default traversal,
I would not be completely unhappy
but think: not optimal but better than nothing ;-)
--
Dieter
___
Zope-Dev maillist - Zope-Dev@zope.org
http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-dev
** No cross posts or HTML encoding! **
(Related lists -
http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-announce
http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope )
Re: [Zope-dev] Re: default view
Florent Guillaume wrote at 2006-6-22 14:50 +0200: > ... >> Fixing this incompatibility without breaking applications which may be >> unknowingling dependent on it is going to be hard. > >Which is one of the reasons why abandoning it and moving on to Zope 3 >traversal is the only sane way to proceed :) > >Abandon = deprecate, yes :) Congratulations: up to know one of the proposals with the highest rate of breakage :-( Hopefully, it will happen only after a very long time... -- Dieter ___ Zope-Dev maillist - Zope-Dev@zope.org http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-dev ** No cross posts or HTML encoding! ** (Related lists - http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-announce http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope )
Re: [Zope-dev] Re: default view
On 22 Jun 2006, at 14:43, Tres Seaver wrote:
Philipp von Weitershausen wrote:
Dieter Maurer wrote:
Florent Guillaume wrote at 2006-6-18 02:05 +0200:
...
if hasattr(object,'__bobo_traverse__'):
subobject=object.__bobo_traverse__(request, name)
If you are working on it, then you should implement a
means that "__bobo_traverse__" can tell the caller that
it should use the normal default.
This feature makes lots of "__bobo_traverse__" implementations
much saner. A prominent example is the Archetypes' one.
In our private Zope version, I have used an exception
("UseTraversalDefault") for this purpose.
I think that __bobo_traverse__ can raise AttributeError currently to
indicate that it has failed to look up an attribute and that
traversal
should try other options. Apart from being a more explicit spelling,
what advantage would UseTraversalDefault have?
The contract for '__bobo_traverse__' is actually insane on this point,
becuase it has to serve two "masters":
- In publishing traversal, an AttributeErrror raised from
'__bobo_traverse__' has the semantics you describe.
- In '{un,}restrictedTraverse', an AtttributeError causes the whole
traversal process to abort, returning the 'default' value (if
passed), or raising.
Fixing this incompatibility without breaking applications which may be
unknowingling dependent on it is going to be hard.
Which is one of the reasons why abandoning it and moving on to Zope 3
traversal is the only sane way to proceed :)
Abandon = deprecate, yes :)
Florent
--
Florent Guillaume, Nuxeo (Paris, France) Director of R&D
+33 1 40 33 71 59 http://nuxeo.com [EMAIL PROTECTED]
___
Zope-Dev maillist - Zope-Dev@zope.org
http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-dev
** No cross posts or HTML encoding! **
(Related lists -
http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-announce
http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope )
Re: [Zope-dev] Re: default view
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
Hash: SHA1
Philipp von Weitershausen wrote:
> Dieter Maurer wrote:
>> Florent Guillaume wrote at 2006-6-18 02:05 +0200:
>>> ...
>>> if hasattr(object,'__bobo_traverse__'):
>>> subobject=object.__bobo_traverse__(request, name)
>> If you are working on it, then you should implement a
>> means that "__bobo_traverse__" can tell the caller that
>> it should use the normal default.
>>
>> This feature makes lots of "__bobo_traverse__" implementations
>> much saner. A prominent example is the Archetypes' one.
>>
>>
>> In our private Zope version, I have used an exception
>> ("UseTraversalDefault") for this purpose.
>
> I think that __bobo_traverse__ can raise AttributeError currently to
> indicate that it has failed to look up an attribute and that traversal
> should try other options. Apart from being a more explicit spelling,
> what advantage would UseTraversalDefault have?
The contract for '__bobo_traverse__' is actually insane on this point,
becuase it has to serve two "masters":
- In publishing traversal, an AttributeErrror raised from
'__bobo_traverse__' has the semantics you describe.
- In '{un,}restrictedTraverse', an AtttributeError causes the whole
traversal process to abort, returning the 'default' value (if
passed), or raising.
Fixing this incompatibility without breaking applications which may be
unknowingling dependent on it is going to be hard.
Tres.
- --
===
Tres Seaver +1 202-558-7113 [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Palladion Software "Excellence by Design"http://palladion.com
-BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-
Version: GnuPG v1.4.2.2 (GNU/Linux)
Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org
iD8DBQFEmpB2+gerLs4ltQ4RAtc9AKDIxupDiJI57PA2+Vsx/HNDHBlMWgCgosXm
BCH//4dbeBOKt/C6ESsEvG0=
=4DH2
-END PGP SIGNATURE-
___
Zope-Dev maillist - Zope-Dev@zope.org
http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-dev
** No cross posts or HTML encoding! **
(Related lists -
http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-announce
http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope )
Re: [Zope-dev] Re: default view
Dieter Maurer wrote:
> Florent Guillaume wrote at 2006-6-18 02:05 +0200:
>> ...
>> if hasattr(object,'__bobo_traverse__'):
>> subobject=object.__bobo_traverse__(request, name)
>
> If you are working on it, then you should implement a
> means that "__bobo_traverse__" can tell the caller that
> it should use the normal default.
>
> This feature makes lots of "__bobo_traverse__" implementations
> much saner. A prominent example is the Archetypes' one.
>
>
> In our private Zope version, I have used an exception
> ("UseTraversalDefault") for this purpose.
I think that __bobo_traverse__ can raise AttributeError currently to
indicate that it has failed to look up an attribute and that traversal
should try other options. Apart from being a more explicit spelling,
what advantage would UseTraversalDefault have?
Philipp
___
Zope-Dev maillist - Zope-Dev@zope.org
http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-dev
** No cross posts or HTML encoding! **
(Related lists -
http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-announce
http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope )
Re: [Zope-dev] Re: default view
Florent Guillaume wrote at 2006-6-18 02:05 +0200:
> ...
> if hasattr(object,'__bobo_traverse__'):
> subobject=object.__bobo_traverse__(request, name)
If you are working on it, then you should implement a
means that "__bobo_traverse__" can tell the caller that
it should use the normal default.
This feature makes lots of "__bobo_traverse__" implementations
much saner. A prominent example is the Archetypes' one.
In our private Zope version, I have used an exception
("UseTraversalDefault") for this purpose.
--
Dieter
___
Zope-Dev maillist - Zope-Dev@zope.org
http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-dev
** No cross posts or HTML encoding! **
(Related lists -
http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-announce
http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope )
Re: [Zope-dev] Re: default view
Philipp von Weitershausen wrote: Martijn Faassen wrote: Philipp von Weitershausen wrote: Florent Guillaume wrote: Florent Guillaume wrote: So here's a proposal: how about having the following order: - __bobo_traverse__ - unacquired attribute - zope 3 views - acquired attributes Attached is the current diff I'm working with (for Zope 2.10). Hey, cool. You know, the real challenge is backporting this all the way to Five 1.2 to ensure compatibility between the current stable Zope 2 releases. We've actually noticed Five 1.2.4 is not compatible with Five 1.2 in some way to do with mysterious 'index.html' bits appearing after URLs where we thought they shouldn't. We haven't tracked this down and we might not for a while (we just switched back to Five 1.2..), just wanted to let you know Five 1.2 has some compatibility issues.. I wasn't aware of this issue. Please file a collector entry so it won't get lost :). Honestly we haven't had any time to figure this out, so I wouldn't even know what to write in a collector issue. We'll figure it out eventually but for now we'll just stick with Five 1.2. Regards, Martijn ___ Zope-Dev maillist - Zope-Dev@zope.org http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-dev ** No cross posts or HTML encoding! ** (Related lists - http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-announce http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope )
Re: [Zope-dev] Re: default view
Martijn Faassen wrote: > Philipp von Weitershausen wrote: >> Florent Guillaume wrote: >>> Florent Guillaume wrote: So here's a proposal: how about having the following order: - __bobo_traverse__ - unacquired attribute - zope 3 views - acquired attributes >>> Attached is the current diff I'm working with (for Zope 2.10). >> >> Hey, cool. You know, the real challenge is backporting this all the way >> to Five 1.2 to ensure compatibility between the current stable Zope 2 >> releases. > > We've actually noticed Five 1.2.4 is not compatible with Five 1.2 in > some way to do with mysterious 'index.html' bits appearing after URLs > where we thought they shouldn't. We haven't tracked this down and we > might not for a while (we just switched back to Five 1.2..), just wanted > to let you know Five 1.2 has some compatibility issues.. I wasn't aware of this issue. Please file a collector entry so it won't get lost :). Note that it'd be great if you can find out which particular version of Five 1.2.x introduced the problem. And as always, a unit test that demonstrates the problem reproducibly would be superb. Philipp ___ Zope-Dev maillist - Zope-Dev@zope.org http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-dev ** No cross posts or HTML encoding! ** (Related lists - http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-announce http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope )
Re: [Zope-dev] Re: default view
On 6/20/06, Martijn Faassen <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: It broke a lot of stuff for us, so we switched back until we can figure out what's going on when we upgrade that piece of code to a newer version of Zope. There is more tests in Five 1.5, adding them to older version of Five should be easy. Making them not break may be more complicated. ;) -- Lennart Regebro, Nuxeo http://www.nuxeo.com/ CPS Content Management http://www.cps-project.org/ ___ Zope-Dev maillist - Zope-Dev@zope.org http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-dev ** No cross posts or HTML encoding! ** (Related lists - http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-announce http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope )
Re: [Zope-dev] Re: default view
On 6/20/06, Florent Guillaume <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: I was looking at the publisher, and it hacks the URL to explicitely add the default view to it when a default view is used. That might explain it. You're saying Zope 2.10 doesn't do that? I thought it did too. Well, it adds index_html, not index.html. And it's not visible, just traversed. -- Lennart Regebro, Nuxeo http://www.nuxeo.com/ CPS Content Management http://www.cps-project.org/ ___ Zope-Dev maillist - Zope-Dev@zope.org http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-dev ** No cross posts or HTML encoding! ** (Related lists - http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-announce http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope )
Re: [Zope-dev] Re: default view
Florent Guillaume wrote: On 20 Jun 2006, at 13:23, Martijn Faassen wrote: [snip] We've actually noticed Five 1.2.4 is not compatible with Five 1.2 in some way to do with mysterious 'index.html' bits appearing after URLs where we thought they shouldn't. We haven't tracked this down and we might not for a while (we just switched back to Five 1.2..), just wanted to let you know Five 1.2 has some compatibility issues.. I was looking at the publisher, and it hacks the URL to explicitely add the default view to it when a default view is used. That might explain it. You're saying Zope 2.10 doesn't do that? I thought it did too. I'm just comparing Zope 2.8 + Five 1.2 with Zope 2.8 + Five 1.2.4. I have no idea what Zope 2.10 does. It broke a lot of stuff for us, so we switched back until we can figure out what's going on when we upgrade that piece of code to a newer version of Zope. Regards, Martijn ___ Zope-Dev maillist - Zope-Dev@zope.org http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-dev ** No cross posts or HTML encoding! ** (Related lists - http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-announce http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope )
Re: [Zope-dev] Re: default view
On 20 Jun 2006, at 13:23, Martijn Faassen wrote: Philipp von Weitershausen wrote: Florent Guillaume wrote: Florent Guillaume wrote: So here's a proposal: how about having the following order: - __bobo_traverse__ - unacquired attribute - zope 3 views - acquired attributes Attached is the current diff I'm working with (for Zope 2.10). Hey, cool. You know, the real challenge is backporting this all the way to Five 1.2 to ensure compatibility between the current stable Zope 2 releases. We've actually noticed Five 1.2.4 is not compatible with Five 1.2 in some way to do with mysterious 'index.html' bits appearing after URLs where we thought they shouldn't. We haven't tracked this down and we might not for a while (we just switched back to Five 1.2..), just wanted to let you know Five 1.2 has some compatibility issues.. I was looking at the publisher, and it hacks the URL to explicitely add the default view to it when a default view is used. That might explain it. You're saying Zope 2.10 doesn't do that? I thought it did too. Florent -- Florent Guillaume, Nuxeo (Paris, France) Director of R&D +33 1 40 33 71 59 http://nuxeo.com [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ Zope-Dev maillist - Zope-Dev@zope.org http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-dev ** No cross posts or HTML encoding! ** (Related lists - http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-announce http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope )
Re: [Zope-dev] Re: default view
Philipp von Weitershausen wrote: Florent Guillaume wrote: Florent Guillaume wrote: So here's a proposal: how about having the following order: - __bobo_traverse__ - unacquired attribute - zope 3 views - acquired attributes Attached is the current diff I'm working with (for Zope 2.10). Hey, cool. You know, the real challenge is backporting this all the way to Five 1.2 to ensure compatibility between the current stable Zope 2 releases. We've actually noticed Five 1.2.4 is not compatible with Five 1.2 in some way to do with mysterious 'index.html' bits appearing after URLs where we thought they shouldn't. We haven't tracked this down and we might not for a while (we just switched back to Five 1.2..), just wanted to let you know Five 1.2 has some compatibility issues.. Regards, Martijn ___ Zope-Dev maillist - Zope-Dev@zope.org http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-dev ** No cross posts or HTML encoding! ** (Related lists - http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-announce http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope )
Re: [Zope-dev] Re: default view
On 6/19/06, Philipp von Weitershausen <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: Hmm, perhaps browser:defaultView isn't such a bad idea then... :). Actually, I don't have much of an opinion, to be honest. I just thought that it would make sense that browser:defaultView only modified the behaviour of Zope 3 views. The fact that it also modifies the behaviour of the general traversal machinery in Zope 2 sounds like a blessing if we get to avoid __browser_default__ this way; if it turns out to be a curse for other people, then perhaps we need a five:defaultPublishedName or something... Well, or we don't do anything, and let people who refuse to use views continue to use __browser_default__. :-) We do have the non-five adapter for this, it can stay for ever. > The option is to allow attributes, and specify the browserdefault with > @@ to force it to be a view. Hmm. ??? That doesn't sound right. Good, then all seems to agree on that. -- Lennart Regebro, Nuxeo http://www.nuxeo.com/ CPS Content Management http://www.cps-project.org/ ___ Zope-Dev maillist - Zope-Dev@zope.org http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-dev ** No cross posts or HTML encoding! ** (Related lists - http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-announce http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope )
Re: [Zope-dev] Re: default view
Lennart Regebro wrote: > On 6/18/06, Philipp von Weitershausen <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: >> > The remaining important question is: if a *default* view is specified >> > using the zope 3 mechanism, should we always treat it as a zope 3 view, >> > and refuse to lookup an attribute with that name? >> >> Yep. browser:defaultView should only affect the view machinery. > > OK, that means that the test in Five.browser.tests.test_defaultview > lin 94 iw wrong, as it explicitly tests that they CAN be attributes. > ;) > >This tests whether an existing ``index_html`` method is still >supported and called: > > >>> print http(r''' > ... GET /test_folder_1_/testindex HTTP/1.1 > ... ''') > HTTP/1.1 200 OK > ... > Default index_html called > > > From Five.browser.tests.defaultview.zcml: > >for="Products.Five.tests.testing.simplecontent.IIndexSimpleContent" > name="index_html" > /> > > If you want to have non-views as browser default, we still need to use > __browser_default__, then. Hmm, perhaps browser:defaultView isn't such a bad idea then... :). Actually, I don't have much of an opinion, to be honest. I just thought that it would make sense that browser:defaultView only modified the behaviour of Zope 3 views. The fact that it also modifies the behaviour of the general traversal machinery in Zope 2 sounds like a blessing if we get to avoid __browser_default__ this way; if it turns out to be a curse for other people, then perhaps we need a five:defaultPublishedName or something... > The option is to allow attributes, and specify the browserdefault with > @@ to force it to be a view. Hmm. ??? That doesn't sound right. Philipp ___ Zope-Dev maillist - Zope-Dev@zope.org http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-dev ** No cross posts or HTML encoding! ** (Related lists - http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-announce http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope )
Re: [Zope-dev] Re: default view
On 6/18/06, Florent Guillaume <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: On 18 Jun 2006, at 20:15, Lennart Regebro wrote: > If you want to have non-views as browser default, we still need to use > __browser_default__, then. > > The option is to allow attributes, and specify the browserdefault with > @@ to force it to be a view. But that wouldn't be compatible with what would happen in pure zope 3, where a default view of '@@foo' would mean the same as ++view+ +@@foo or foo, unless I'm mistaken. I'm not saying it's a GOOD option. :-) Anyway, after we decide on this I can merge the branch to 2.10/trunk. -- Lennart Regebro, Nuxeo http://www.nuxeo.com/ CPS Content Management http://www.cps-project.org/ ___ Zope-Dev maillist - Zope-Dev@zope.org http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-dev ** No cross posts or HTML encoding! ** (Related lists - http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-announce http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope )
Re: [Zope-dev] Re: default view
On 18 Jun 2006, at 20:15, Lennart Regebro wrote: If you want to have non-views as browser default, we still need to use __browser_default__, then. The option is to allow attributes, and specify the browserdefault with @@ to force it to be a view. But that wouldn't be compatible with what would happen in pure zope 3, where a default view of '@@foo' would mean the same as ++view+ +@@foo or foo, unless I'm mistaken. Florent -- Florent Guillaume, Nuxeo (Paris, France) Director of R&D +33 1 40 33 71 59 http://nuxeo.com [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ Zope-Dev maillist - Zope-Dev@zope.org http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-dev ** No cross posts or HTML encoding! ** (Related lists - http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-announce http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope )
Re: [Zope-dev] Re: default view
On 6/18/06, Philipp von Weitershausen <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > The remaining important question is: if a *default* view is specified > using the zope 3 mechanism, should we always treat it as a zope 3 view, > and refuse to lookup an attribute with that name? Yep. browser:defaultView should only affect the view machinery. OK, that means that the test in Five.browser.tests.test_defaultview lin 94 iw wrong, as it explicitly tests that they CAN be attributes. ;) This tests whether an existing ``index_html`` method is still supported and called: >>> print http(r''' ... GET /test_folder_1_/testindex HTTP/1.1 ... ''') HTTP/1.1 200 OK ... Default index_html called From Five.browser.tests.defaultview.zcml: If you want to have non-views as browser default, we still need to use __browser_default__, then. The option is to allow attributes, and specify the browserdefault with @@ to force it to be a view. -- Lennart Regebro, Nuxeo http://www.nuxeo.com/ CPS Content Management http://www.cps-project.org/ ___ Zope-Dev maillist - Zope-Dev@zope.org http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-dev ** No cross posts or HTML encoding! ** (Related lists - http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-announce http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope )
