Re: Repository (was Re: [Zope3-Users] introductory app idea: music filesystem browser)
baiju m wrote: Where we will put all these demo apps, I am ready to volunteer to maintain the repository. I think this doesn't fit well in svn.zope.org or zopeweb repository at codespeak.net May be we can ask for new repository at codespeak.net as part of z3-base? Or I can create SF.net project, svn is available in SF.net now. All zope3 users will be creating/created small apps while learning Zope 3, please contribute these apps to this repository. We will be required all kinds of apps mentioned in the parent thread. Any other suggestions? Of cource we will not be following heavy process, due to lack of resource :) Regards, Baiju M ___ great! I hope this will get due visibility and attention from those who has expertise to contribute. Regards, Roman ___ Zope3-users mailing list Zope3-users@zope.org http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope3-users
Re: [Zope3-Users] introductory app idea: music filesystem browser
ksmith99 wrote: I would add ZPT, skins and increasingly formlib to the list of things to learn. +1 on demos vs. tutorials. A good working demo functions as both a tutorial and a testimonial. I think right off the bat, the bookmarker app should be incrementally expanded. Evolving the app *is* the power of Zope3. Other apps that start off easy but can grow increasinly complex fast. * blog * wiki Wiki is already there (ZWiki ported to Zope3). Hard to call it demo, but worth looking into. Other candidates: * photo (media) album * bug tracker * shoping basket (pluggable) * simple library system * web calendar * guest book * calculator * chat * poll * FAQ management * forum I've been wanting to put together a Concept Map companion to the Bookmarker tutorial. If anyone is interested in helping out please give me a buzz, and I'll setup a collaborative concept map. Regards, Roman Suzi ___ Zope3-users mailing list Zope3-users@zope.org http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope3-users
Re: [Zope3-Users] introductory app idea: music filesystem browser
Other apps that start off easy but can grow increasinly complex fast. * blog * wiki Wiki is already there (ZWiki ported to Zope3). Hard to call it demo, but worth looking into. Other candidates: * photo (media) album * bug tracker * shoping basket (pluggable) * simple library system * web calendar * guest book * calculator * chat * poll * FAQ management * forum I have just started working on an example app for Zope 3 tutorial. This is not yet finished, I am looking for feedback. http://codespeak.net/svn/z3/zopeweb/trunk/content/documentation/z3tut/ I think we can discuss Zope documentation, demo apps and new zope.org at zope-web list. Few weeks back I have proposed a new tutorial here: http://mail.zope.org/pipermail/zope-web/2006-February/003702.html Based on this, I am creating this tutorial app. P.S: I am not yet created a production stage Zope 3 application. Regards, Baiju M ___ Zope3-users mailing list Zope3-users@zope.org http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope3-users
Re: [Zope3-Users] introductory app idea: music filesystem browser
I would add ZPT, skins and increasingly formlib to the list of things to
learn. +1 on demos vs. tutorials. A good working demo functions as both a
tutorial and a testimonial.
I think right off the bat, the bookmarker app should be incrementally
expanded. Evolving the app *is* the power of Zope3.
Other apps that start off easy but can grow increasinly complex fast.
* blog
* wiki
I've been wanting to put together a Concept Map companion to the Bookmarker
tutorial. If anyone is interested in helping out please give me a buzz, and
I'll setup a collaborative concept map.
Roman Susi wrote:
Joel Moxley wrote:
On 2/26/06, Roman Susi [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Hi joel,
...
Probably such a simple app doesn't require more than 2 hours from
seasoned Zope3 developer ;-)
Regards,
Roman
I think you're right. I rethought what an intro app should be, and I
think the bookmarker one gets the job done.
The one drawback for the bookmarker is that there's not documentation
on taking it deeper and making it do more.
Another idea I had would be to take the worldcookery app straight from
the example code chapter 5 or 6 and provide a streamlined do this in
30 min introduction. Then if someone wanted to go deeper into what
they had done or go farther and add more features, philikon's book
would be right there. The obvious drawback would be the lack of 3.1
and 3.2 specific features.
In any event, I think a well-conceived official getting started
guide would carry much weight in that crucial time when someone would
be looking around at various frameworks like ror and django. There
are some decent guides out there, and I am curious to see what the
consensus would be.
Yes... Zope 3 looks heavy-weight and complicated - not for everyone. And
even non-everyone has hard time.
Even Karrigell:
http://karrigell.sourceforge.net/
sells better to Python programmer with its
def index():
print Hello, world !
thing. (Cf. Zope3 Hello World)
So, good tutorials and examplar application could help.
The problem with current Zope3 material is... lack of motivation. To
deal with Zope3 you need to master these concepts:
- views
- layers
- resources
- viewlets
- content objects
- schemas
- utilities
- services
- site
- interfaces
- adapters
- principals
- tests
- ZCML configuration
(have I forgot anything?)
And you need to RTFM a lot! And then spend a lot of time writing
IHelloWorld, configure.zcml, permissions, etc. around simple thing:
def index(self):
return Hello, world !
So, examplar app should show WHY do I want all this. Then Zope3 will be
ready to accept Wows! and attract people who go to Ruby railstation or
whatever. And I want to know HOW the power of Python is useful inside
Zope3. By the impression (first and second) I see no reason why Zope3 is
done in Python and not in Java or Cobol.
Probably, several apps/components are required to show the best of
Zope3. For example, PythonCard has (and always had) a lot of small demos
which REALLY demonstrate why using PythonCard is easier than just plain
wxWindows / wxWidgets. And those demos are small because using
PythonCard framework made applications small.
Maybe SQLObject can be used to make things more compact.
(BTW, I think that ZODBObject for ZODB could be a far more plus. Yes,
I know ZODBObject is just Persistent object in Zope, but how do I make
this with ZODB as easy as:
class Person(SQLObject):
...
addresses = MultipleJoin('Address')
? That is, quering ZODB is difficult (it's probably a problem of any
OODB, but nonetheless).
)
To summarize, are there any demo apps which make people jump with joy? I
do not believe Zope3 is difficult because its serious framework.
Frameworks are there to subtract complexity, not add. And demos are just
for that: to show cases where complexity is reduced.
Please note, that I changed discussion from tutorial to demo. This is
because I believe that good demo is also good tutorial.
Regards,
Roman Suzi
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Re: [Zope3-Users] introductory app idea: music filesystem browser
Hi joel, I am learning Zope3 and certainly get thru those tutorials you mention. Yet, Zope3 is a dark forest for me because there are just too many things to remember (I think its Zope3's design drawback). Its like a large shop of tools. The app which could show their right usage of these tools could be great. But. Do not try to be cool or dumbed down. It also worries me that the best way to start Zope3 app is to copy things from existing one and mend to the taste. Probably good hands-on can help get rid of this practice... Probably such a simple app doesn't require more than 2 hours from seasoned Zope3 developer ;-) Regards, Roman Joel Moxley wrote: Hi all, Recently, I've been doing some thinking about cool ways to introduce a Python programmer to Zope3. Baiju has done a great job with his bookmarker app in his Zope3 in 30 Minutes. The upside (and what was it was designed for) is simplicity, but it's not especially useful or cool past the learning value. Likewise, Stephan's message board app is great for a very in-depth introduction to Zope3. The upside is that it covers most everything and the application itself could be useful; however it gets very involved very quickly, and I argue it would be biting off more than a someone simply exploring Zope3. I think the learning progression of Philipp's worldcookery app is excellent, but it might be outside of the scope of, again, someone doing a cursory exploration of Zope3. Imagine this for a second -- what if we wrote a very simple music filesystem browser? We would want to keep this at about the level of sophistication of the bookmarker app. I would argue that someone might see Zope3 and want to know what it was all about. What better way to show them by just providing a web interface to their Beastie Boys collection in a few hundred lines of code? Useful and cool! I bet with some simple tweaking of the mp3 id3 tags, we could load in album images from the web and so forth. The app could have a function for zipping together an album to allow an all-at-once download. And so forth. With some screencasts, this could be a fun little introductory app that someone could get in and out of in an hour. Just a thought. Joel ___ Zope3-users mailing list Zope3-users@zope.org http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope3-users !DSPAM:43fb1bb36851617211293! ___ Zope3-users mailing list Zope3-users@zope.org http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope3-users
[Zope3-Users] introductory app idea: music filesystem browser
Hi all, Recently, I've been doing some thinking about cool ways to introduce a Python programmer to Zope3. Baiju has done a great job with his bookmarker app in his Zope3 in 30 Minutes. The upside (and what was it was designed for) is simplicity, but it's not especially useful or cool past the learning value. Likewise, Stephan's message board app is great for a very in-depth introduction to Zope3. The upside is that it covers most everything and the application itself could be useful; however it gets very involved very quickly, and I argue it would be biting off more than a someone simply exploring Zope3. I think the learning progression of Philipp's worldcookery app is excellent, but it might be outside of the scope of, again, someone doing a cursory exploration of Zope3. Imagine this for a second -- what if we wrote a very simple music filesystem browser? We would want to keep this at about the level of sophistication of the bookmarker app. I would argue that someone might see Zope3 and want to know what it was all about. What better way to show them by just providing a web interface to their Beastie Boys collection in a few hundred lines of code? Useful and cool! I bet with some simple tweaking of the mp3 id3 tags, we could load in album images from the web and so forth. The app could have a function for zipping together an album to allow an all-at-once download. And so forth. With some screencasts, this could be a fun little introductory app that someone could get in and out of in an hour. Just a thought. Joel ___ Zope3-users mailing list Zope3-users@zope.org http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope3-users
