Hi Jordi, I absolutely concur with Brett and Andrew, they have already mentioned the reasoning very clearly. I don't support this policy right now and maybe we can review the status in 12 months and have another constructive discussion.
Also, it would be a right time to have a clear policy from APNIC to clarify what and when any (available + reserved) resource goes into AS0 TAL. Regards, Aftab A. Siddiqui On Sat, 27 Aug 2022 at 14:21, Brett O'Hara <[email protected]> wrote: > Hi Jordi and SIG > > The implication of your proposal, by 5.1.4, is that by putting them in > Reserved status, APNIC will assign them RPKI ROA AS0 and deny them routing > on the Internet. You will then allow them 12 months grace after you have > denied their operation to officially claim them. Your update from 6 to 12 > months has not allowed APNIC any more time to contact custodians. > > I agree with Andrew that the current impact is too large and too damaging > to internet end point users in your proposed time frame. > > I believe APNIC members should asess the progress of the HRM project in 12 > months time and consider your proposal then, rather than mandating in a > policy final date in this cycle, despite your afore mentioned risks. > > Regards, > Brett > > On Fri, Aug 26, 2022 at 10:19 PM JORDI PALET MARTINEZ via sig-policy < > [email protected]> wrote: > >> Hi Andrew, all, >> >> >> >> I see it otherwise. >> >> >> >> We are providing APNIC one year to resolve the remaining cases. If we >> don’t have this policy on January 1st 2023, all those addresses will be >> “frozen” into reserved status. >> >> >> >> Please note this: >> >> >> >> “The recent EC resolution (22nd February 2022), imply that historical >> resource holders in the APNIC region would need to become Members or >> Non-Members by 1st January 2023 in order to receive registration >> services. Failing this, historical resource registration will no longer be >> published in the APNIC Whois Database and said resources will be placed >> into reserved status.” >> >> >> >> Failing to reach consensus on this proposal (suggestions to improve it, >> of course, are welcome, as we can publish new versions in the next few >> days), means that we can’t change the situation up to a new alternative >> proposal reach consensus, which could happen around March 2023, or may be >> September 2023. Till then those resources are “lost” in the wild. >> >> >> >> Resources in the wild could be more easily hijacked or used for all kind >> of malicious activities. Do you think the community should accept that risk? >> >> >> >> In the impact analysis of the first version, APNIC indicated that 6 >> months may be too short, and 12 months will be safer, so we opted for >> keeping the 12 months option only. Do you have any data that suggest that >> APNIC will be unable to complete the project in the next year? >> >> >> >> >> >> Regards, >> >> Jordi >> >> @jordipalet >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> El 26/8/22, 2:56, "Andrew Yager" <[email protected]> escribió: >> >> >> >> Hi, >> >> >> >> Thanks for this data vivek. >> >> >> >> On the basis of this I cannot suggest this proposal can be accepted - the >> impact is too large. >> >> >> >> Certainly we, as a community, and APNIC as a whole, need to look at what >> can be done to assist these prefixes coming "into the fold" - but with 581 >> still with no response, and 175 "not yet done" - the risk of this proposal >> having adverse consequences on the routing table is too great. >> >> >> >> Andrew >> >> >> >> >> >> On Fri, 26 Aug 2022 at 17:45, Vivek Nigam <[email protected]> wrote: >> >> Hi Andrew, >> >> >> >> Please see my responses below. >> >> >> >> > a) the number of legacy resources currently in use (as in, visible in >> the global table), but not yet claimed through this process >> >> >> >> We started this project in February this year and identified 3932 >> historical IPv4 prefixes that were not managed under an APNIC account. 885 >> of these prefixes are currently visible in the routing table. Following if >> the breakdown of these 885 prefixes. >> >> >> >> Retained by custodian: 81 >> >> These prefixes have successfully been claimed and are managed under >> active APNIC accounts now. >> >> >> >> Being claimed by custodian: 175 >> >> We are in contact with the potential custodians and they are in the >> process of claiming these prefixes. >> >> >> >> No response: 581 >> >> We have sent emails to the custodians but have not got a response as yet. >> We are in the process to find alternate contacts by contacting the ASN >> announcing these prefixes. >> >> >> >> Yet to contact: 44 >> >> No valid contact information available in whois. We are in the process to >> look for alternate contacts via publicly available searches as well as >> contacting the ASN announcing these prefixes. >> >> >> >> No longer needed: 4 >> >> The custodians have informed us they no longer need these prefixes. We >> are in the process to contact the ASN announcing these prefixes to check >> why they are announcing them. >> >> >> >> > b) the number of legacy resource claims that have been attempted but >> not successfully justified >> >> >> >> So far we have not formally rejected any claims. Where a claimant does >> not provide sufficient information to support their claim, we do not reject >> the claim but rather advise them we will need more information in order to >> properly assess it. We have 3 pending cases where we have requested >> additional supporting information and one case where the custodian has >> refused to setup an APNIC account. We will continue to assist them with >> their claims through the year. >> >> >> >> Thanks >> >> Vivek >> >> >> >> *From: *Srinivas (Sunny) Chendi <[email protected]> >> *Date: *Wednesday, 24 August 2022 at 6:02 pm >> *To: *Andrew Yager <[email protected]>, JORDI PALET MARTINEZ < >> [email protected]> >> *Cc: *[email protected] <[email protected]> >> *Subject: *[sig-policy] Re: prop-147-v001: Historical Resources >> Management >> >> Dear Andrew, >> >> Thank you for requesting data. >> We will do our best to provide it as soon as possible. >> >> Regards, >> Sunny >> APNIC Secretariat >> >> On 24/08/2022 4:03 pm, Andrew Yager wrote: >> >> Is there any data indicating: >> >> >> >> a) the number of legacy resources currently in use (as in, visible in the >> global table), but not yet claimed through this process >> >> b) the number of legacy resource claims that have been attempted but not >> successfully justified >> >> >> >> I am aware that this has remained a topic of concern for a number of >> APNIC members and technical engineers, and many have been working with >> APNIC to try and resolve resource allocations with various degrees of >> success. >> >> >> >> Andrew >> >> >> >> >> >> On Wed, 24 Aug 2022 at 09:36, JORDI PALET MARTINEZ via sig-policy < >> [email protected]> wrote: >> >> Hi Sunny, all, >> >> >> >> Just summited a new proposal version amending the editorial inputs and >> also adding the following text: >> >> “Furthermore, from 1st January 2023, all historical resources need to be >> maintained in a current APNIC account. In the event of an account closure, >> the historical resource will be placed in a quarantine period and then >> made available for re-delegation similar to current resources.” >> >> >> >> Also, in order to facilitate the job, I agree that will be safer to move >> to a single option with 12 months, so I’ve deleted the “2 choices” in the >> new version. >> >> >> >> >> >> Regards, >> >> Jordi >> >> @jordipalet >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> El 23/8/22, 6:51, "Srinivas (Sunny) Chendi" <[email protected]> escribió: >> >> >> >> Hi all, >> >> This is the secretariat's impact assessment for prop-147-v001, which is >> also >> available on the proposal page. >> >> http://www.apnic.net/policy/proposals/prop-147 >> >> APNIC understands that this proposal suggests that historical IPv4 >> resources be justified and claimed, or that they be made available to other >> organizations that require them. >> >> APNIC also notes the deletion of Section 4.2.1. Recovery of unused >> historical resources. As reported to the community at APNIC 50, this may no >> longer be applicable once the project is completed, possibly by the end of >> 2022. >> >> >> https://conference.apnic.net/50/assets/files/APCS790/Reclaiming-unused-IPv4.pdf >> >> *Recommendations:* >> >> For consistency of language and to align with the current policy >> document, the reference to "available pool" could be changed to "free >> pool". Also the reference to "original resource holder" and "original >> custodians" could be changed to "custodian/s". >> >> Given the number of uncontactable resource holders, the 12-month option >> would be safer for APNIC to implement, as some historical resource holders >> may not be aware of the changes to the treatment of historical resources >> until they are placed into reserved status on January 1, 2023. >> >> *Clarification:* >> >> This proposal only addresses historical resources that have not been >> claimed by January 1st, 2023. It does not specify what happens to the >> historical resources that are claimed, but the Member or Non-Member account >> is not renewed after January 1, 2023. These resources will be considered >> historical and may remain in reserve status indefinitely. >> >> Regards, >> Sunny >> APNIC Secretariat >> >> On 11/08/2022 4:59 pm, chku wrote: >> >> Dear SIG members, >> >> >> >> The proposal "prop-147: Historical Resources Management" has been >> >> sent to the Policy SIG for review. >> >> >> >> It will be presented at the Open Policy Meeting (OPM) at APNIC 54 on >> >> Thursday, 15 September 2022. >> >> >> >> https://conference.apnic.net/54/program/schedule/#/day/8 >> >> >> >> We invite you to review and comment on the proposal on the mailing list >> >> before the OPM. >> >> >> >> The comment period on the mailing list before the OPM is an important >> >> part of the Policy Development Process (PDP). We encourage you to >> >> express your views on the proposal: >> >> >> >> - Do you support or oppose this proposal? >> >> - Does this proposal solve a problem you are experiencing? If so, >> >> tell the community about your situation. >> >> - Do you see any disadvantages in this proposal? >> >> - Is there anything in the proposal that is not clear? >> >> - What changes could be made to this proposal to make it more effective? >> >> >> >> Information about this proposal is appended below as well as available at: >> >> >> >> http://www.apnic.net/policy/proposals/prop-147 >> >> >> >> Regards, >> >> Bertrand, Shaila, and Ching-Heng >> >> APNIC Policy SIG Chairs >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> --------------------------------------------------------------- >> >> >> >> prop-147-v001: Historical Resources Management >> >> >> >> ---------------------------------------------------------------- >> >> >> >> Proposer: Jordi Palet Martinez ([email protected]) >> >> Anupam Agrawal ([email protected]) >> >> >> >> >> >> 1. Problem statement >> >> -------------------- >> >> Section 4.2.1 is outdated and only looking for very old non-routed resources. >> >> >> >> The recent EC resolution (22nd February 2022), imply that historical >> resource holders in the APNIC region would need to become Members or >> Non-Members by 1st January 2023 in order to receive registration services. >> Failing this, historical resource registration will no longer be published >> in the APNIC Whois Database and said resources will be placed into reserved >> status. >> >> >> >> Given the continued need for IPv4 addresses, it would seem illogical to keep >> these unused historical resources in reserve indefinitely. Alternatively, >> these resources can be used in a way that is sufficiently justified in >> accordance with existing policies, allowing other organizations to benefit >> from them during the IPv6 transition. >> >> >> >> >> >> 2. Objective of policy change >> >> ----------------------------- >> >> Ensure that historical IPv4 resources are justified and claimed, or that >> they are available for other organizations that require them. >> >> >> >> If the resources are marked as reserved, the original holders may reclaim >> them with a valid justification, when APNIC failed to contact them for >> whatever reason. >> >> >> >> One example of a valid justification is the case where an organization is >> actually using them internally and there are valid reasons to instead use >> RFC1918 space, however the space is not routed. >> >> >> >> To give the original resource holders more time to reclaim them, we propose >> two time-frames for the community discussion and consideration: 6 months and >> 12 months. >> >> >> >> >> >> 3. Situation in other regions >> >> ----------------------------- >> >> In other RIRs legacy resources lose their legacy status when the RSA is >> signed (upon receiving other resources), so they become under the regular >> monitoring. In other cases, there is nothing specified by policies. >> >> >> >> >> >> 4. Proposed policy solution >> >> --------------------------- >> >> Proposed policy solution (option 6-months): >> >> >> >> Actual text: >> >> 4.2.1. Recovery of unused historical resources (remove) >> >> To recover these globally un-routed resources and place them back in the >> free pool for re-delegation, APNIC will contact networks responsible for >> historical address space in the APNIC region that has not been globally >> routed since 1 January 1998. >> >> >> >> To recover un-routed historical AS numbers, APNIC will contact networks >> responsible for resources not globally used for a reasonable period of time. >> >> >> >> Proposed text: >> >> 4.3. Historical Resources Management >> >> Historical resources that have not been claimed by the original resource >> holder will be deleted from the APNIC Whois database after 1st January 2023, >> and marked as reserved. >> >> >> >> Historical resources marked as reserved have an additional six (6) months to >> be claimed by their original custodians. After that, APNIC will add these >> resources to the available pool for re-delegation. >> >> >> >> Proposed policy solution (option 12-months): >> >> Actual text: >> >> 4.2.1. Recovery of unused historical resources (remove) >> >> To recover these globally un-routed resources and place them back in the >> free pool for re-delegation, APNIC will contact networks responsible for >> historical address space in the APNIC region that has not been globally >> routed since 1 January 1998. >> >> >> >> To recover un-routed historical AS numbers, APNIC will contact networks >> responsible for resources not globally used for a reasonable period of time. >> >> >> >> Proposed text: >> >> 4.3. Historical Resources Management >> >> Historical resources that have not been claimed by the original resource >> holder will be deleted from the APNIC Whois database after 1st January 2023, >> and marked as reserved. >> >> >> >> Historical resources marked as reserved have an additional twelve (12) >> months to be claimed by their original custodians. After that, APNIC will >> add these resources to the available pool for re-delegation. >> >> >> >> >> >> 5. Advantages / Disadvantages >> >> ----------------------------- >> >> Advantages: >> >> Fulfilling the objective above indicated. >> >> >> >> Disadvantages: >> >> None. >> >> >> >> >> >> 6. Impact on resource holders >> >> ----------------------------- >> >> None. >> >> >> >> >> >> 7. 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