Dam this is so complicated having so much distros around!…. i can understand the dev's in there. My god.
I think in the end that the biggest clients will win this battle. If big studios are using X or Y ….. it will be that in the end. It's not me and my 15 seats that will ever make a difference. I just feel more confidence in Redhat and it's 2 branches (CentOS and Fedora) …. there is good financing and professional back story then every other new comers. On another hand, SL look's very rock solid too and may be a good avenue as well … thanks Raf for your tought. sly Sylvain Lebeau // SHED V-P/Visual effects supervisor 1410, RUE STANLEY, 11E ÉTAGE MONTRÉAL (QUÉBEC) H3A 1P8 T 514 849-1555 F 514 849-5025 WWW.SHEDMTL.COM <http://WWW.SHEDMTL.COM> On 2013-08-22, at 1:13 AM, Raffaele Fragapane <[email protected]> wrote: > You can add Animal Logic and Weta to that list, and a number of other shops. > And the reason why is largely "because". > > Mint, or Ubuntu for that matter, are hardly FOTM phenomena at this point, but > due to a number of outdated reasons and vendor support terrorism we all get > stuck with varying degrees of IT dept pressure contributing or not to the > choice. > > SL is surely worth trying if you're in selection phase. It's the same premise > of CentOS (RHEL clone) but with some of the suck removed and some important > libraries tested against and added. > > If you use Softimage Deb/Ubuntu distros are simply not an option. Maya and > all Foundry products however work perfectly fine on them, and SideFX even > officially supports Debs. > > My bet at home is Mint currently, and I was practically shocked at how much > worked right out of the box or could be enable with the simplest of cook-book > recipes and scripts. At work I use whatever the IT department has reason to > choose (with our consulting), they deal with a lot more problems and vendor > pressure than what I do on the DCC end of things alone. > > It's a shame that it seems this catch22 is just about to receive another spin > of the wheel instead of moving towards breaking it. > > > On Thu, Aug 22, 2013 at 2:51 PM, Sylvain Lebeau <[email protected]> wrote: > i feel you Raf… > > but isn't Cent Os is what's being used a The MIll per example, or Rodeo, or > etc… ? …… and why is it like this? > Things just don't update to the latest fun flavour of the month in a clap of > hands of course…..but…. > > what would be your best bet for 2015? ….i mean clearly… SL? > i would be more than happy to know more about your opinion onto this! > > :-) > > sly > > > > > Sylvain Lebeau // SHED > V-P/Visual effects supervisor > 1410, RUE STANLEY, 11E ÉTAGE MONTRÉAL (QUÉBEC) H3A 1P8 > T 514 849-1555 F 514 849-5025 WWW.SHEDMTL.COM <http://WWW.SHEDMTL.COM> > > On 2013-08-22, at 12:22 AM, Raffaele Fragapane <[email protected]> > wrote: > >> For the record Mint isn't supposed to be a clone of Ubuntu for its >> simplicity of installation and other such things. >> Mint was born because a bunch of very well clued people were tired with >> Ubuntu never leaving the bleeding edge, and wanted to take a step back from >> it and provide a more reliable, stable, predictable, standard-close and most >> importantly media friendly Distro. >> >> They succeeded across the board and overnight became one of the top four >> distros. >> >> CentOS is far from being this boon of stability and secureness, and it's >> sort of a pain we endure due to legacy in our industry that we deal with it. >> People went to it (or RHEL) because it was one of the few rare stable >> options that also had decent lasting support, but it's as far removed as you >> can possibly get from what we do as an industry. This was years and years >> ago, it simply doesn't stand true anymore, and other distros have a much >> snappier and happier level of support both through third parties and the >> communities they foster. >> >> A better RHEL clone for us as a collective would probably be SL (Scientific >> Linux), but better again would be moving away from RH and RPM distros >> entirely to be honest. >> >> It's only inertia that keeps things there, they are not the most bleeding >> edge and innovative with Fedora, nor the ones with the biggest user >> community with any of them, nor in the least the most reliable/stable. All >> they have going for them is the corporate support of RH, but the reasons >> that made convenient having corporate support back then have long >> disappeared, and CentOS only piggybacks on whatever support RHEL is paid for >> by other clients, it doesn't have a proper corporate support in its own >> right. >> >> More and more software agrees with Debian and Debian rooted evolutions, some >> of it officially, some of it simply doesn't have any issues with it, and >> package formats such as RPM are mostly irrelevant these days outside of the >> domain of the OS itself. >> >> It's a crying shame to see that instead of supporting a broader spectrum and >> helping a move towards better distros AD not only seems to want to stay with >> RPM, but to move to a miserable, ancient, backwards, absolutely and horribly >> media unfriendly one like CentOS. At least Maya runs perfectly fine on Mint, >> and getting a second GCC running on it is a non-issue, Soft isn't quite as >> lucky in those regards. >> >> Only SideFX seems to have got some inkling of understanding of the Linux >> platform and how to support it. >> >> CentOS sucks and it's a shame all the lemmings keep being forced running >> down that cliff (me included) when there's much better pastures that >> practically everybody is happily grazing on except the DCC related crowds. >> >> >> >> On Thu, Aug 22, 2013 at 1:41 PM, Sylvain Lebeau <[email protected]> wrote: >> hahaha nice one Eric!! >> I was young when i've played this game!! wow... >> >> >> For me, …. about the real survey….. which i've failed totally by awnsering >> no at the first only question i was ever presented! hahaha. bummer. >> >> The first thing that brought me to try Linux was Nuke… And we we're amazed >> by the speed and responsiveness…. It's another ballgame totally. I would say >> about 70% speed increase. If not twice as fast while pushing sliders. Also >> for our 2 Mari licenses and for our upcoming Houdini seats. I know >> softimage won't be as fast since it relies on virtualization with mainwin. >> But i still think it would speed up our process here. >> >> I've tried Fedora 18 at first because i tought that it would be workable >> since Softimage was already supported on Fedora 14….but it's a bit old now…. >> So i've based my tests upon 18 hopping i would be able to make it work. >> Forcing libs, packages, simlinks, hacks in mainwin and X11… name it. And i >> was wrong. I was never able to make it work at all. Even after nice help >> from the guys here. >> >> Lighting artists do comp their shots here. So the back and forth between >> softimage and nuke is really important. You don't want to dual boot just >> for taking a specular down on a pass and resend it to the farm from windows. >> >> I will follow the leader if we ever end up on using something else. And >> from what i've gathered, CentOs is the one. it's free and very secure/rock >> solid. And it is still compatible with our deploy tools we are developing >> in house for new/ or to admin machines via our onsite yum repo for updates >> so we can control what's happening in updates on a testing machine. We will >> adapt easily to this switch on a yum/rpm based distro. I've said it already >> in another thread but we are using http://www.pulpproject.org/ to control >> how updates are deployed. It is very safe since you can test/update on one >> test machine then re-sync the repositories to your own in-house server…. It >> works like a charm. And could make Fedora a real contender. Without it, >> Fedora is just too dangerous to me and not an option. >> >> I know some talked about Mint and Ubuntu for their simplicity of >> installation. But i think we must keep going under the redhat backbone >> umbrella. Of course i am biased since my last paragraph. But I still think >> it's the safest way to go. >> >> So… CentOs or Fedora since they are free. >> >> CentOS is much more safe in it's updates scheme for less babysitting. Of >> course. >> Fedora because it's bleeding edge and much fun for user experience..., but >> more instability come's with it if you don't control the updates history >> properly. >> Otherwise RHEL. But it comes with a price tag that make things less >> appealing to upgrade an whole park of computers. >> >> i vote for CentOS first …. or Fedora with meticulous controlled updates. >> >> >> sly >> >> >> >> >> Sylvain Lebeau // SHED >> V-P/Visual effects supervisor >> 1410, RUE STANLEY, 11E ÉTAGE MONTRÉAL (QUÉBEC) H3A 1P8 >> T 514 849-1555 F 514 849-5025 WWW.SHEDMTL.COM <http://WWW.SHEDMTL.COM> >> >> On 2013-08-21, at 7:06 PM, Eric Turman <[email protected]> wrote: >> >>> >>> >>> >>> On Wed, Aug 21, 2013 at 5:43 PM, Raffaele Fragapane >>> <[email protected]> wrote: >>> I don't have an issue with people venting their frustrations, nor I'm >>> saying there's no reason for it, since there is. >>> I'm saying it cannot be in every single bloody thread, and it shouldn't be >>> with absolutely gratuitous and unrelated potshots. >>> >>> This was a thread about a linux survey, that became about surveys, that >>> became about the developers listening in or not. All fair game. >>> How does, out of the blue, complaining about Soft's viewport by comparing >>> it to an OFFLINE rendering engine that just happens to draw through webGL >>> fit? It doesn't. Beside not even being an apt comparison there is not one >>> small, tenuous connection to the topic. >>> >>> Make a complaint thread and keep it live by having a go at the world if you >>> wish, I'll jump in there and take a shot at it myself, but please let at >>> least one useful thread once in a while proceed unmolested and on topic. >>> That's all I ask. >>> >>> >>> On Wed, Aug 21, 2013 at 9:34 PM, Angus Davidson <[email protected]> >>> wrote: >>> Hi Raffaele >>> >>> >>> While I agree with your firstpoint, You cant really compare something that >>> is packaged vs something that is ongoing I do think your being a bit >>> sensitive about people expressing their frustrations Before coming to >>> education I worked as a developer in a big corporation (for south africa >>> anyway) and you need to be able to separate people venting from stuff that >>> is valid to what you are doing. That is what part of being a professional >>> developer is. It by default requires you to have a think skin and an >>> ability to see behind what that person is saying. >>> >>> >>> Yes there is a fair amount of negativity around, but most of it has very >>> valid reasons for being there. Trying to turn that around is what the Devs >>> are trying to do. I really look forward to time when the vast majority of >>> the posts are more positive, but that will only come from when REALISTIC >>> expectations are considered to be met (I of course exclude my unrealisttic >>> expectaion of a mac version of XSI from that ;) >>> >>> >>> Point is this is one of the few places people cant vent their frustrations >>> with hope of it being read and possibly acted on by the appropriate people. >>> In a lot of ways its valuable for them to see the scope of their task. The >>> good and the bad. >>> >>> >>> Kind regards >>> >>> >>> Angus >>> >>> >>> From: Raffaele Fragapane [[email protected]] >>> Sent: 21 August 2013 09:35 AM >>> >>> To: [email protected] >>> Subject: Re: Softimage 2015 User Survey >>> >>> I was involved with that from inception (of its integration) to launch and >>> for future integration steps (coming CGPortfolio revamp GCS has been >>> talking about for a while). >>> >>> It's an offline rendering engine that pre-bakes a lot of stuff, that's what >>> it boils down to. >>> If you're willing to entertain the idea of having non-deforming characters >>> with channels limited to four entries into a single pixel shader rendering >>> offline for seconds to minutes before they can be orbited around, then you >>> could call it a viewport. Make sure you don't blow the polycount limit >>> either. >>> Me? I wouldn't call it that (a viewport). >>> >>> If you want to beg for anything beg for the VP2 ubershader (DX11 only) >>> that's in Maya, comparing Verold to a DCC viewport is apples and oranges. >>> >>> Please, could we have at least ONE thread spanning more than a handful of >>> e-mails at a time without using words like embarassing? Particularly one >>> where people wonder why developers are quiet on the list. >>> >>> >>> On Wed, Aug 21, 2013 at 5:00 PM, Mirko Jankovic <[email protected]> >>> wrote: >>> another one for survey.. >>> >>> http://forums.cgsociety.org/showthread.php?f=2&t=1119260&page=1&pp=15 >>> >>> now inside browser you can have better viewport than in SI. it is >>> embarrassing to have to rely on 3d party small programs in order to see >>> your work with all textures that are industry standard for years now. :) >>> >>> >>> On Wed, Aug 21, 2013 at 7:45 AM, Chris Chia <[email protected]> wrote: >>> Hi Doeke, >>> This survey is posted here to seek for a bigger audience as it's result >>> would be useful for certain decision needed for Linux support. >>> Of course we do contact the users and sometimes we brought it offline [out >>> of mailinglist] and emailed users instead to collect more information. >>> >>> And lastly, please rest assured that many eyes are on this list. >>> >>> >>> Regards, >>> Chris >>> >>> From: [email protected] >>> [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Doeke Wartena >>> Sent: Wednesday, August 21, 2013 3:19 AM >>> To: [email protected] >>> Subject: Re: Softimage 2015 User Survey >>> >>> I wondered, are people that work on softimage ever active on the >>> mailinglist apart from asking for a survey? >>> In other words, how is the contact between the creators and the users? >>> >>> 2013/8/19 Rob Wuijster <[email protected]<mailto:[email protected]>> >>> Just a friendly warning, this only works without issues on non-UEFI >>> machines. >>> Due to the UEFI 'Secure Boot' Wubi will not run, and could in some cases >>> destroy data on disk. >>> So if you recently bought a new (W8) pc, chances are it boots with UEFI. So >>> YMMV on these pc's with Ubuntu.... >>> >>> But yes, there are tricks to work around this if you want ;-) >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> Rob >>> >>> >>> >>> \/-------------\/----------------\/ >>> On 16-8-2013 19:29, Alan Fregtman wrote: >>> If anyone is new to Linux but wants to get their feet wet in the easiest >>> way possible, check out the Wubi installer: >>> http://www.ubuntu.com/download/desktop/windows-installer >>> >>> It will install as a program under Windows and will set up dual boot >>> perfectly for you without touching your partitions (using a file as a >>> virtual disk.) Because of this virtual disk thing, it's not recommended for >>> very serious use, but it's a great way to try things out... >>> >>> and if you don't like it, go to Windows, Control Panel, Uninstall Programs, >>> type in Wubi and that's it. >>> >>> If you do end up liking I suggest install Ubuntu with the install cd on a >>> real partition. Copying your settings is not hard, if you're worried about >>> that. >>> >>> >>> >>> On Fri, Aug 16, 2013 at 1:00 PM, Andres Stephens >>> <[email protected]<mailto:[email protected]>> wrote: >>> I'm curious about Linux. As.. the multiprocessor support would be perfect >>> for some machines we are thinking to buy as servers for a renderfarm. >>> >>> I use Windows 7 and 8 a lot, and I use thirdparty apps for multidesktop >>> features, with the functions like the ones mentioned below. I am starting >>> to use free software, like GIMP, Blender and other suites for my needs, and >>> wondered what other pro's of Linux to consider the switch. It would be nice >>> to have Softimage as an easy package for Linux based renderfarm solutions >>> or alternative OS solutions. >>> >>> The last mail you wrote was good to know, other than the conflicting >>> intuous/bamboo driver conflict and multi user accounts logged in on >>> different monitors at the same time, I do do the same virtual desktop >>> system in Windows (Virtuawin or Dexpot) , and yes also, there are some >>> other great productivity tools I use in Windows I am sure I'd miss in >>> Linux. Many pro's and con's. >>> >>> If SI was an option for some kind of linux system, I would consider it once >>> I upgrade to new hardware that Windows couldn't take advantage of. >>> >>> Any "ease of use" and "compatibility" development is welcome. >>> >>> +1 >>> >>> >>> > Date: Fri, 16 Aug 2013 18:34:51 +0200 >>> > From: [email protected]<mailto:[email protected]> >>> >>> > To: >>> > [email protected]<mailto:[email protected]> >>> > Subject: Re: Softimage 2015 User Survey >>> > >>> > ...you do realize that i can make the exact same statement with a search >>> > and replace for linux vs windows, do you? >>> > >>> > just sayin'... >>> > >>> > but joking aside: for me switching to linux brought a lot more >>> > advantages than staying with good old windows. >>> > >>> > first i don't miss any tools. i have softimage, mudbox, maya, photoshop, >>> > inkscape and all our inhouse editors. they all work fine. secondly, the >>> > killerfeature of linux is its window managers. in my case mate desktop. >>> > its slick, fast and powerful. i can have as many virtual desktops as i >>> > want, keep several apps open in parallel (and not stacked up behind each >>> > other), each screen is customized to my needs. sessions get saved, i can >>> > switch and shuffle them around with a few keystrokes and i almost never >>> > reboot - updates happen in the background...i have two monitors chained >>> > to one desktop and another monitor on a second x session that kind of >>> > acts like a second computer with a shared mouse, keyboard and >>> > copy/paste-buffer for email etc.. it's the real life equivalent of those >>> > funky hollywood-operating systems that we've all seen so many times >>> > before and it's boosting my day2day performance a LOT. >>> > >>> > oh, and i can switch between wacom intous and bamboo without >>> > deinstalling and installing drivers. try that with windows :) >>> > >>> > cheers! >>> > chris >>> > >>> > On 08/16/2013 06:05 PM, Mirko Jankovic wrote: >>> > > yea so far I also saw only problems with linux after trying to switch >>> > > couple times.... >>> > > fro missing so many other tools to making every day tasks a nightmare. >>> > > sorry but if you don't have an Linux guru around then you will spend >>> > > more >>> > > time trying to do something on system instead of actually working on >>> > > your >>> > > job. >>> > > >>> > > >>> > > On Fri, Aug 16, 2013 at 5:58 PM, Martin >>> > > <[email protected]<mailto:[email protected]>> wrote: >>> > > >>> > >> And why is that? What does make SI Linux better than Windows version? >>> > >> From >>> > >> an artist point of view I see more cons than pros in switching from >>> > >> Windows >>> > >> to Linux, apart from dealing with Linux based networks and farms. >>> > >> >>> > >> M.Yara >>> > >> Sent from my iPhone >>> > >> >>> > >> On 2013/08/17, at 0:43, Bruno-Pierre Jobin >>> > >> <[email protected]<mailto:[email protected]>> wrote: >>> > >> >>> > >>> Totally agree with Miquel. I'd switch to linux tomorrow if the >>> > >> installation process was easier. >>> > >> >>> > >>> >>> >>> No virus found in this message. >>> Checked by AVG - www.avg.com<http://www.avg.com> >>> Version: 2013.0.3392 / Virus Database: 3211/6587 - Release Date: 08/18/13 >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> -- >>> Our users will know fear and cower before our software! Ship it! Ship it >>> and let them flee like the dogs they are! >>> This communication is intended for the addressee only. It is confidential. >>> If you have received this communication in error, please notify us >>> immediately and destroy the original message. You may not copy or >>> disseminate this communication without the permission of the University. >>> Only authorised signatories are competent to enter into agreements on >>> behalf of the University and recipients are thus advised that the content >>> of this message may not be legally binding on the University and may >>> contain the personal views and opinions of the author, which are not >>> necessarily the views and opinions of The University of the Witwatersrand, >>> Johannesburg. All agreements between the University and outsiders are >>> subject to South African Law unless the University agrees in writing to the >>> contrary. >>> >>> >>> >>> -- >>> Our users will know fear and cower before our software! Ship it! Ship it >>> and let them flee like the dogs they are! >>> >>> >>> >>> -- >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> -=T=- >> >> >> >> >> -- >> Our users will know fear and cower before our software! Ship it! Ship it and >> let them flee like the dogs they are! > > > > > -- > Our users will know fear and cower before our software! Ship it! Ship it and > let them flee like the dogs they are!
