I agree completely, which is why I’m hoping that if we all band together and ask for this small set of concessions, it will help us all make wiser and easier transitions where-ever we may end up.
you can rent or own either Max or Maya or some larger Suite and with any of these, you would automatically get the now depreciated Softimage 2015 package for legacy/pipeline purposes and uses. Full development of the now Depreciated Softimage stops, as planned in 2016, however we still continue to get some additional years of FBX/Crosswalk support as well as regular Mental Ray updates which will go hand in hand with Crosswalk. That's it, no more we can really hope to ask for considering how this was all presented without much of a choice or say, but that little bit right there, might be a lot more than it sounds like in terms of what it can do for all current Softimage users, as they transition to Maya, Max or elsewhere completely -and Autodesk will make some bucks in the process and hopefully keep more users in their AD family than they likely will otherwise. I hope that's all stated clear enough now. I know everyone, myself included will want way more (personally I’d axe Max and Maya and just keep Softimage but that's unrealistic), but given the way this all went down, we are lucky if we get the above concessions, and if future Maya development goes smoothly (aka. the new Maya Ice is good, they replace the dated Hypershade with a system akin to the Softimage Render Tree, they add some love to weight painting and rigging and animation tools, and they make realistic steps to making Maya a fully usable and coherent/streamlined package out of the box, interface wise with rich keyboard and mouse interactions like Softimage has) well then by all means, you can call me a happy Maya user in time, at my own pace. But you are 100% correct that this is all subjective, it’s all PR, it’s not here and right now and it’s not the near foreseeable future until proven otherwise, that's why I’m asking for the small 2 point concession above to make things better for all of us and I hope you will all join me in asking these small things from Autodesk as a professional courtesy for the hours/years, the schooling and money we all put in to learning these skills and loving this software. I don’t think it’s too much to ask, but I think we all have to ask. Sent from Windows Mail From: Mirko Jankovic Sent: Saturday, March 15, 2014 3:26 PM To: [email protected] All that "we are fully developing Maya so it will be great just you see"is pure PR crap. From couple sides is heard that bifrost which is one big argument on their side is still too young to be usable. It is not even full grown fluid simulation and to replace ICE it will take years.. even after, by AD's plan, SI is long gone they will still be not near the level of ICE. Not to mention all other aspects of Maya workflow which are SOOOO wrong that won/t get to table at all for years to come. If they are so confident in Maya development they should let people see it for them self and move by own choice. But having whole road map so closed and under all NDAs is selling a cat in the bag. You have no idea where is Maya going at all what is planned and WHEN it will be available. That is big pile of crap if you have to plan transition. On Sat, Mar 15, 2014 at 8:56 AM, skuby <[email protected]> wrote: The above has a severe typo: Should read: With that, I don't think Autodesk will want to encourage new users to Softimage, so not selling new licenses directly makes sense for them, when they want to be selling/promoting Maya and presumably Max licenses. sorry, my error On Sat, Mar 15, 2014 at 2:52 PM, skuby <[email protected]> wrote: """"Martin [email protected] With SI retired you can't buy licenses for SI anymore, it doesn't come with Max or Maya, you can only use the licenses you have right now. You should add "keep selling SI licenses" to your idea. Martin Sent from my iPhone"""""""""""""" Thing is, Softimage IS now depreciated, like it or not, no petition will likely change that, that should be clear, -it's not going to move forward like it used to and it will eventually fully die. With that, I don't think Autodesk will want to encourage new users to Softimage, so not selling new licenses directly makes sense for them to continue selling Softimage directly, when they want to be selling/promoting Maya and presumably Max licenses, -(yes it makes sense to us but not for them and we aren't going to win that one). But, to keep it updated with FBX/Crosswalk and Mental Ray is a great transition boon for those interested in migrating to either Maya or Max. This will allow people in the middle of a transition to easily return to familiar territory and get work done fast and clean and go back and forth with ease, at their own pace as they re-learn all of their skills as well as totally new features in their new package of choice. Two years, now until 2016, may very well not be enough time for some studios/freelancers if they are buried in much needed work and it may not be so easy to get all of the functionality out of the interfaces they are accustomed to integrated into Max/Maya in such a short time at a level that would be acceptable to all users. This keeps Soft development in a depreciated state, but gives a little bit more growing room than the 2016 deadline which is rightfully ambitious. And none of this encourages new Softimage users, which is I suspect a quality they are wisely after given their total gameplan. On Sat, Mar 15, 2014 at 1:17 PM, skuby <[email protected]> wrote: Ok you are very right on the SDK/Plug-in front, I really didn't think about it like that. However, I think that dominated your response and your accidentally throwing out the baby with the bathwater in effect. (without question, no matter what, Softimage is depreciated but I'm trying to get the best effect out of a transition here) Soft, as is, without plug-ins or new features, is STILL usable for games, movies, commercials and more. Removing it as a stand-alone product, and packing it SOLEY as a tie in bonus with Maya, Max or any Suite, ONLY further promotes the packages AD wants to keep alive while appeasing the small studios (Japan/Vancouver/etc.) and freelance users of Softimage quite a bit better than just a 2016 cutoff. By keeping alive Crosswalk/FBX functionality for some time longer, -modeling, animation, UV, rigging, etc. can all still be done as is in Soft and if needed, easily sent over to Maya, as that features work right now between those two packages quite well (a little trickier with max as you don't get all the automated 2-way crosswalk features last I checked but you still have FBX handy and a TD can easily work with that). Keeping up to date Mental Ray, allows existing pipe-lines that go in the other direction, or use Softimage entirely, able to keep up and extend the transition period beyond 2016. Now, remember, all the while anyone primarily using Softimage with these Crosswalk/Mental Ray add-ons, are also going to have full up to date copies of at least one of the 2 non-depreciated softwares that AD wants to continue and actively promote at this time, which is only going to increase AD's revenue by ensuring many Japanese/Vancouver studios and others stay in the Autodesk family, and that alone will likely provide more than enough revenue that would potentially be lost (even if only in small amounts) to the obvious hoard of disgruntled orphans. I don't want to make this too long, but I had hoped by now, AD would have already merged the 3 major userbases (I expect with a Maya base above all else because big studios have a lot invested in existing pipelines with it and that just makes financial sense) . I think the above will really help with that transition, and they can promote in the future a refined Maya with a well needed updated hypershade (Softimage's render tree kills the current, dated, hypershade without question usability wise) and with a much needed update to the interaction model/keyboard shortcut/user interface that Softimage has over every other package out there, out of the box as a default. When you tack on the upcoming ICE replacement, and the best is done not to alienate hurt Softimage users, I think many if not most will naturally migrate to a well refined Maya without much cajoling with the above mentioned treats and perhaps some love given to the animation/keying/rigging/weighting systems. Anyways, that's my peace, I put it out there with the best of intentions. Mudbox is one of my favorites, I started with Max, moved onto Maya and ended up with Softimage. And in the current forms I have to wait for the future to move on from Softimage, because nothing, inside or outside of the AD family is going to replace it today, and I want that extended for as long as possible as Maya is refined into the obvious front-runner than merges the 3 bases. On Sat, Mar 15, 2014 at 11:19 AM, Matt Lind <[email protected]> wrote: Short version: 1) Softimage supports more than just film/video. There are people working in many industries which won’t be served by mental ray and FBX updates. My studio is a prime example (games). 2) The SDK is not open enough for plugin developers to do what you suggest. Many of the 3rd party efforts to date usually required some amount of help from the Softimage developers to make possible. Softimage tended to implement new features, then expand the SDK to support those new features. For 3rd party development, you need the SDK expanded ahead of the features. In other words, while the SDK is mature, it’s also not expanded too far outside of what you can already do out of the box. New plugin efforts would largely amount to using existing levers and switches instead of making new levers and switches like you and everybody else would like. There’s still plenty of tools that can be written, but probably not anything earth shattering as the SDK is single threaded and some of the components it leans on are getting long in the tooth too as Luc-Eric has recently mentioned. Basically, Softimage is that car that still performs really great, but has high mileage and about to enter that period where major parts will need repairing/replacing making it a very expensive upkeep. Since the driver hasn’t seen that breakage firsthand yet, he’s under the impression there isn’t a problem and the car can drive on indefinitely into the sunset. Autodesk was at our site just as the press release was officially hitting the wire. While no specifics were mentioned by Autodesk or our reseller in our offices, my personal poking, prodding and reading between the lines lead me to believe a lot of work (refactoring) has gone into Maya the past few years to accommodate some of this burden in migration, but some (much) work still has to come. I think we’ll see parts of that work in Maya 2015 and probably explains why the Softimage Montreal team has been busy for the past 2 years on Maya instead of Softimage. I have no idea if there’s any truth to this, but it’s what I’ve come to believe based on the sparse bits and pieces I could put together, and witnessing how such migrations were handled in the past. I’ll share the rest of my thoughts from 21+ years of Softimage experience in another thread at another time. Right now I’m neck deep in getting the project out the door Ben Houston so kindly posted the other day. Matt From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of skuby Sent: Friday, March 14, 2014 8:38 PM To: [email protected] Subject: Idea- Just keep Mental Ray and FBX support - Softimage free w/Maya or Max or any Suite. Softimage is ready out of the box now with no new features added. Why not, leave it as is, but continue to support new Mental Ray and FBX updates so that it still continues to fit nicely into any pipeline and leave continued development past 2016 at those simple two things. Leave the rest up to plug-in developers and forever-more include Softimage as a free throw-in with any Maya or Max or Suite purchase or rental, so there will be many ways to own it or rent it while exclusively promoting your other packages. The other great thing, since it can only now come with Max/Maya or a Suite, is that Soft users are never a financial burden to their employers since it will always be a free seat with any existing Max/Maya licence. This could be a very easy, welcomed add-on to the existing Softimage retirement announcement. Please please, consider this as an option Autodesk and please, everyone, support and promote this idea to Autodesk, I think it's our best bet and we might actually be able to get this. -regards
