Is this trolling? I'm not sure. But I feel I have to keep shooting this
kind of thing down. Without naming names you know the guy that created a
very complex feather system in ICE here at Glasswork, on the job. We
have been using Houdini as you know for a few years now, so with the
combination of a technically minded artist who operates at a high level
exposed to Houdini for few years who is still tearing his hair out in
frustration points to the issues with Houdini.
They need to seriously look at improving their user interaction. Its not
just about getting used to it.
On 12/05/2018 16:18, Jordi Bares wrote:
I would suggest to give it a proper go, if you have used ICE you will
see how easy it is.
jb
On 12 May 2018, at 10:48, Tom Kleinenberg <[email protected]
<mailto:[email protected]>> wrote:
This is a really interesting discussion and covers thoughts from all
angles. There is an element to the discussion of technical types
telling the rest of us we just need to "git gud" which is a bit
disheartening though. (It's disheartening not because it's
patronising but because the only way to use Houdini is to master it
at fairly high technical level which will exclude a number of people,
myself included). I understand that there is a technical learning
curve to any piece of software but Houdini is a different beast to
the other big three (Max, Maya, eXSI). You can drop a Maya artist in
XSI and tell them to achieve a task and they'll do it - maybe not the
most efficient way, but a way that works. I don't feel that's the
same in Houdini. There's too much "well, nobody really models in
Houdini" or "you can, but nobody really animates in Houdini". That's
not necessarily bad, Zbrush is probably the "best" software on the
market in terms of expectations to results but it's clear about it's
narrow focus.
To put it in a personal way, I've worked to some level in 3DS Max,
Maya, Lightwave and XSI. I wouldn't consider myself particularly
artistically gifted or technically proficient but I am good at
understanding the needs of a non-technical person (eg art-director),
drawing up a list of requirements and achieving them, getting support
from concept artists are pipeline TD's if needed. XSI was* the
software that allowed me to go the furthest independently (*was
because I've had to move to Maya). I would love to replace that and
Houdini appears to be a good fit but I'm not sure. Maybe the
"uber-nodes" you're discussing are anathematic to Houdini's overall
workflow but would be streamline the on-boarding process. XSI was
excellent at getting people into the software and then allowing you
to get into the more complex bits on your own; although ICE was the
main weapon in my arsenal, it's possible to work for years without
ever touching it.
On 12 May 2018 at 09:34, Jordi Bares<[email protected]
<mailto:[email protected]>>wrote:
@Matt, Exactly my thoughts (but clearly better explained)
I would certainly advocate to improve things in terms of node
functionality or assisting better in certain aspects (blend shape
manager, exporting bundles in and out, or adding hierarchical
overrides in takes, or adding certain tools we use every single
day, or bringing more “uber nodes” to VOPs so we don’t have to be
so granular) but always without sacrificing proceduralism or
breaking their core design.
Jb
On 11 May 2018, at 22:04, Matt Lind <[email protected]
<mailto:[email protected]>> wrote:
Given Houdini is a node based system, there is a simple paradox
at play that in order to get the level of cohesiveness Softimage
employed, tools need to share information and work together. A
node based system, by design, requires each node to act
independently. To get the Softimage workflow in Houdini requires
either monolithic nodes with enough intelligence to cover all
the bases of a particular task, or the UI needs to take control
and hide the nodes behind the scenes slapping user's wrists if
they attempt to fiddle with the nodes involved. In either case,
it works against a node based system's mantra.
In short, I don't think it's possible for Houdini to ever become
another Softimage. You'll have to settle for something that has
great power but some degree of cumbersome workflow.
Matt
Message: 2 Date: Fri, 11 May 2018 18:44:10 +0100 From: Alastair
Hearsum <[email protected]
<mailto:[email protected]>> Subject: Re: Houdini : non
VFX jobs? To:[email protected]
<mailto:[email protected]>
I think there is real danger in pinning all this grumbling on
lack of familiarity and not acknowledging that there are some
fundamental design issues . The first step to recovery is to
admit that there a problem. As everyone knows there is some
fantastic technology in there but its strung together in an
awful way. Its like putting the organs of a 20 year old in an
octagenarian; each organ very capable in its own right but not
in the ideal host to get the best out if it.
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