I think it would be useful to reframe the discussion away from "stateless/stateful" and more towards the issues that operators are interested in: capital investment and ongoing operational expense. "stateless/stateful" is related to those expense issues but there is not, for any given operator, necessarily a direct relation between operator cost and statefulness.
It seems there are operators who feel their needs would be better served by a "less stateful" mechanism. Whether that mechanism is completely "stateless" or "less stateful" is less important than what I hear as a need for "has state that is cheaper to deploy and run." There may be other operational requirements for better service that would be met by "less stateful." - Ralph On Sep 8, 2011, at 8:24 AM 9/8/11, Behcet Sarikaya wrote: > Hi Fred, > Please note the quotes on stateless in Alain's mail. > > Some techniques are not as stateless as is claimed. > > Please see the chair's slides in IETF 81. > > Regards, > > Behcet > > > >> >> On Sep 7, 2011, at 1:58 PM, Alain Durand wrote: >> >>> Fred: >>> >>> The way I phrased the call for the interim meeting on the mailling list >> might have created some unwanted confusion. >>> >>> Yong and I are going to publish the agenda for the interim meeting very >> soon. >>> There will be ample time to discuss the various propositions on the table >> in the 'stateless' arena (that I can define loosely as no centralized >> CGN) >>> Some more stateless than others, some more stateful than others, some based >> on tunnels and some based on translation. >>> Giving ample time to discuss all those solution is the very reason of the >> interim meeting. >>> >>> Is that clearer? >> >> Hopefully. There is a pretty strong concern here that the meeting is being >> arranged to encourage certain outcomes. I'd really hope for a level playing >> field, whatever the outcome may turn out to be. >> >>> - Alain. >>> >>> >>> >>> On Sep 7, 2011, at 3:10 PM, Fred Baker wrote: >>> >>>> Alain: >>>> >>>> I have a question. In your recent note to softwire, you seem to be >> changing the charter that you and Jari stated in v6ops at IETF-81. At >> IETF-81, >> you stated that there was no need for a translation-related working group >> because translation (specifically the dIVI proposal, but more generally >> translation) would be part of the ongoing softwire charter. In your more >> recent >> statements, you appear to be saying that the topic would be discussed in a >> "vs" setting and buried "because the IETF has decided to not work >> on translation". I'll remind you that the IETF has not only chosen to >> work on translation, but to standardize it along with tunneling technologies. >>>> >>>> I call on you to not only give lip service to discussion, but to allow >> and support open discussion of stateless a+p tunneling (as apposed to >> ds-lite, >> which is stateful) and translation, as you said you would. >>>> >>>> Fred >>>> >>>>> Alain's "translation" statement is ~2hrs 57 min into >> the recording at: >>>>> http://www.ietf.org/audio/ietf81/ietf81-205abc-20110728-1256-pm.mp3 >>>>> >>>>> Transcript: >>>>> >>>>> Alain: This is done in Softwire. We are planning to organize >>>>> an interim meeting in September, in some part of the world, >>>>> to actually go through all the technical solutions that have >>>>> been put forward and analyze them and do what we did at the >>>>> beginning of Softwires. Pretty intensive interim meeting, >>>>> locked in a room, and figure out what we need. >>>>> >>>>> Fred: So, Alain, we are finally going to have the discussion. >>>>> >>>>> Alain: We are actually going to make technical progress on >>>>> this - more than just discussing. >>>>> >>>>> Jari suggested doing everything in one group (implying a new WG). >>>>> >>>>> Alain: there are no more groups. We will just do it now. >>>> >>> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Softwires mailing list >> Softwires@ietf.org >> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/softwires >> > _______________________________________________ > Softwires mailing list > Softwires@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/softwires _______________________________________________ Softwires mailing list Softwires@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/softwires
