You know, I think Yuki does the OLL even with a parity, and then he 
recognises whether the permutation parity is present too, and does 
both or just the one in the one step.

SPeak later,

Dan :)

--- In [email protected], cmhardw 
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> Hey Ron,
> 
> I can't prove it, but I am almost 100% convinced that counting the
> full cycles is the only way.
> 
> I also tried something like looking at each piece in terms of BLD
> cubing orientation.
> 
> That reason this doesn't work is that you can switch two pieces 
that
> are oriented the same way using the parity alg + center rotater (so
> quite literally only those two pieces switch) and they both appear 
to
> be oriented.
> 
> For every orientation case you invesitate, switching exactly two 
edges
> and still having it look the same way in terms of orientation is
> possible.  So this method cannot identify parity in all cases.
> 
> I think counting cycles, with a year or two of practice, could be 
done
> in the 15 second inspection maybe as much as 75% of the time.  The
> problem is you would not have a good plan for starting your solve. 
> The solve itself would start very nearly like a no-inspection 
solve. 
> Plus, 25% of the time you would be very near completing the cycles
> counting right as the judge says "put your cube down".  This can't 
be
> good for a concentration zone or solving rhythm.
> 
> My next goal, and Ron I've already mentioned this to you, is to 
use a
> "one parity method".  After using ZBLL for a while I came to 
realize
> that 5/6 of the COLL cases can be viewed as having switched only 
two
> corners (which is odd parity if you consider the F2L solved and 
the LL
> face turned correctly).  So what I want to do is to memorize for 
each
> COLL case exactly which two corners are swapped (I already know 
this
> for the COLL cases I know for ZBLL, I just need to learn it for 
the rest).
> 
> So 5/6 of the time I will have "odd parity", maybe not really but 
from
> my viewpoint of considering the corners I will.  Then I look at the
> edge permtutation in relation to the two "solved" corners and see 
if
> it is also odd.
> 
> I like this because 5/6 of the time I check for odd permutation of
> edges.  The 1/6 is even becase that is the only case where the 
corners
> are fully solved (permutation) in relation to eachother.  So I just
> memorize the 1/6 cases that are even and in those cases check for 
even
> edge permutation.
> 
> I can do it now already but it is very slow.  However, I believe it
> will speed up the method a small amount when fully practiced and 
here
> is why:
> 
> Let's consider just the scenario where you have OLL parity, the no 
OLL
> parity situation is exactly the same for the "one parity" method or
> whatever you want to call it.
> 
> Regular solving:
> (1/2)*(15) + (1/2)*(15 + 8) = 19
> 
> So it takes 19 moves on average to solve the OLL parity case with 
the
> regular method.  This includes 1/2 the time just the OLL parity and
> 1/2 the time also the PLL parity using Stefan Pochmann's 8 move 
fixer.
> 
> One-parity solving:
> (1/2)*(15) + (1/2)*(15) = 15
> 
> so you save 4 moves on average.
> 
> Here is my idea on how it affects the time too:
> 
> Regular solving:
> (1/2)*(5.25+2.75) + (1/2)*(5.25) = 6.63 seconds to solve parities 
on
> average
> 
> One-parity solving:
> (1/2)*(5.25) + (1/2)*(4.75) = 5.00 seconds
> 
> So you have up to 1.63 seconds to identify double parity without it
> affecting your average at all.  If you spend 1.63 seconds every OLL
> parity solve just staring at your cube and not doing any turns, as
> long as you can always correctly guess double parity or not, then 
you
> will break even with one parity over executing 2 parity algs 1/4 
your
> solves.
> 
> This time difference only gets better the faster you can execute 
the
> double parity alg.
> 
> So it won't save much time, but it saves time.  And at top level
> solving for any puzzle any amount of time saved is good.  Also, on 
the
> rare easy cases where you can identify double parity in .5 seconds 
you
> will save up to 3 seconds off that solve.  That's a full second in 
a
> competition mean that comes off your times.
> 
> So it's a lot of work, for very little gain.  But it's gain
> nonetheless so I think it will be worth it to learn.  Plus it's
> something that ZBLL would teach you anyway, so I might as well 
learn
> it now and be comfortable knowing the structure of my ZBLL algs 
even
> more, having already memorized the corner structure of each one.
> 
> In short I want to learn it, but I realize that it is a lot of work
> for very little gain.
> 
> I feel the cycles counting method is worse though in terms of lots 
of
> work for a disproportional amount of gain.  But then again it 
would be
> a gain, so maybe it is worth it, who knows?
> 
> Chris
> 
> --- In [email protected], "Ron" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> 
wrote:
> >
> > Hi friends,
> > 
> > I had a nice talk with Frédérick Badie during WC 2005 about 
> > improvements on 4x4x4.
> > 
> > One of the subjects was avoiding the orientation parity, as 
already 
> > investigated by Chris Hardwick.
> > I really think there must be an easier way to check this parity, 
> > than to count the cycles. Counting cycles takes quite a lot of 
time, 
> > because you have to follow all pieces around the cube.
> > 
> > I am pretty convinced there must be an easier way. Something 
like 
> > this:
> > Take the orientation of all edges according to blindfolded 
cubing.
> > For each edge pair, count whether the single cubies are oriented 
> > according to that standard. The total number of flipped edge 
cubies 
> > must have the factor 4.
> > 
> > I took some randomly scrambled cubes and it was correct, but I 
am 
> > sure that in fact this hypothesis is not correct.
> > Factor 2 does not work (1 flipped edge pair has that...)
> > 
> > Anyway, please find a counter example of the factor 4.
> > 
> > Or better, please find an easy way to check the 4x4x4 
orientation 
> > parity. Maybe you can do this with diagonal cubies or whatever?
> > 
> > Or proof that the only way is to follow the cycles.
> > 
> > Thanks and have fun,
> > 
> > Ron
> >
>






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