Imagine in my neck of the woods if we had this situation we would have
to have a dry system or antifreeze because Greg said the insulation was
on top of the ceiling tiles. Seems to me that the separation wall should
always be built all the way up.
Rod DiBona
Rapid Fire
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Monday, June 18, 2007 7:48 AM
To: [email protected]
Subject: RE: warehouse offices
Chris, there is a lot of information missing in the question so my
statements are to point out some issues that can have impact on the
question to sprinkle or not. Lately in our dealings with a certain
underwriter, they are becoming less tolerant of unsprinkled spaces that
contain appreciable combustible loading from the items I mentioned. We
often think that just because there's no wood or other large combustible
objects that the space is of non-combustible construction and we're good
to go and leave out the sprinklers. Because the code just refers to the
construction type primarily. But while the building structure may be
noncombustible, the objects related to mechanical and/or electrical
systems may not be and at times the quantities of those items can be
considerable. We just need to be smart enough to ask those type
questions so that we are confident that there is not a potential hazard
left unprotected. Each project is different and can not be treated in a
"typical" manner. This is part of that Due Diligence issue, did we ask
all the questions necessary to make an informed decision or just make
assumptions?
In your reference to the "Nonseparated Use" section of IBC, if that is
used, then the entire building will be protected based on the most
stringent requirements in order to assure adequate protection. There's
no free lunch there, you end up paying more for overall building
construction and life safety systems based on the greater hazard. When
it's looked at overall, the separation wall will in many cases be a
cheaper option.
Craig L. Prahl, CET
Fire Protection Group
Mechanical Department
CH2MHILL
Lockwood Greene
1500 International Drive
PO Box 491, Spartanburg, SC 29304-0491
Direct - 864.599.4102
Fax - 864.599.8439
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
http://www.lg.com
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Chris
Cahill
Sent: Monday, June 18, 2007 9:17 AM
To: [email protected]
Subject: RE: warehouse offices
Craig, except non-separated uses IBC 302.3. I see maybe 50% of the time
there is a wall and never rated.
Also your statement "If SNIP there are objects which are combustible
(piping/duct insulation, wiring, plastic piping, etc) SNIP then yes,
sprinkle it", seems a little strong. The presence of wire for lighting
and computers, HVAC (non-metallic) and plastic roof drain or plumbing
piping as examples in themselves do not drive sprinklers in an otherwise
non-combustible concealed space. With your statement on the surface we'd
sprinkler above every ACT in every office building. And plenum rated
does not = non-combustible.
Here's the bit more to the original question,
Yes you sprinkler it as other have said. The trick is the first 15'
have to be OHII (or what ever the warehouse design is). There after you
can be LH if you want. Saves a few heads maybe a few lines if you are
really lucky.
Technically, thinking it through a bit more, the area beyond the 15' is
LH which one could argue must be QR heads. Creates problems if for some
reason you don't have QR heads over the OHII. Thinking a case where the
roof is over 20' and there is no design advantage to the QR so you think
to save a few buck a head and use SR. Another case might be EC OHII in
the warehouse.
AS far as I know all EC OH heads are SR listed. Granted they have the
same bulb as the QR so maybe this could fly.
Chris Cahill, P.E.
Fire Protection Engineer
Sentry Fire Protection, Inc.
763-658-4483
763-658-4921 fax
Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Mail: P.O. Box 69
Waverly, MN 55390
Location: 4439 Hwy 12 SW
Waverly, MN 55390
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Monday, June 18, 2007 7:29 AM
To: [email protected]
Subject: RE: warehouse offices
The wall between the offices and the storage area should go to the roof
and be rated per the building code since the storage area represents 70%
of the floor space unless it's less than 3,000 sf and is sprinkled.
Depending on these situations and what is being stored it should be
either a 2 or 3 hour barrier. The architect or GC should have this
figured out already.
In either case if the space is completely inaccessible and is not
capable of supporting storage, and doesn't contain any combustibles or
equipment, I've never had an AHJ require sprinklers above the lay-in
ceiling.
If there is gas fired equipment or there is a platform or there are
objects which are combustible (piping/duct insulation, wiring, plastic
piping, etc) or it has some sort of access then yes, sprinkle it.
I assume the offices will be sprinkled, right?
Craig L. Prahl, CET
Fire Protection Group
Mechanical Department
CH2MHILL
Lockwood Greene
1500 International Drive
PO Box 491, Spartanburg, SC 29304-0491
Direct - 864.599.4102
Fax - 864.599.8439
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
http://www.lg.com
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Greg
McGahan
Sent: Saturday, June 16, 2007 1:29 PM
To: [email protected]
Subject: warehouse offices
I have seen this situation handled 3 ways and have my own opinion but
would like to see what you all think.
If you have an ordinary metal building warehouse with normal Ord Hazard
Group II storage with an office area you often end up with space above
the offices. In this case the offices will have lay in tile ceilings
with insulation on top of the ceiling and no structure above the
ceiling.
Therefore there will never be storage on top of the offices. There is
Approximately 14' of clear space above the offices of non combustible
construction with no separation between the space above the offices and
the warehouse.
The offices represent approx. 30% of the total area of the building.
Sprinklers will be installed under the ceiling of the offices.
Do you protect above the offices completely?
Do you protect 15' of the space from the warehouse side?
Do you ignore it?
Thanks,
Greg
Living Water Fire Protection, LLC
1160 McKenzie Road
Cantonment, FL 32533
850-937-1850
Fax: 850-937-1852
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