Been there, done that. That is one thing about a warehouse like this, the offices might be a temporary situation depending on owner / tenant.
Bobby Gillett Designer [EMAIL PROTECTED] (731)-424-0130 -----Original Message----- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Thom McMahon Sent: Monday, June 18, 2007 10:35 AM To: [email protected] Subject: Re: warehouse offices I'm not sure if anyone would agree, but if these are not "Owner" "Occupied" spaces, and on a lease I would always protect above the office as OH II because the next tenant might just not want an office, and rip it down for the extra storage space. That could be in as little as 6 months. When the walls of the office don't go to the ceiling they are very easy to remove at a later date. We've done warehouses where the tenant never even moved in, and weeks latter we had office space being torn down to make room for additional storage. About the only room that they ever leave alone is the bathroom because it costs more to relocate or remove. Thom McMahon Firetech, Inc. 2560 Copper Ridge Dr Steamboat Springs, CO 80488-2136 Tel: 970-879-7952 Fax: 970-879-7926 ----- Original Message ----- From: "Todd Williams - work" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: <[email protected]> Sent: Monday, June 18, 2007 9:19 AM Subject: RE: warehouse offices > They may also be using the insulation for sound proofing > > > At 10:42 AM 6/18/2007, you wrote: >>Imagine in my neck of the woods if we had this situation we would have >>to have a dry system or antifreeze because Greg said the insulation was >>on top of the ceiling tiles. Seems to me that the separation wall should >>always be built all the way up. >> >>Rod DiBona >>Rapid Fire >> >>-----Original Message----- >>From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] >>[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of >>[EMAIL PROTECTED] >>Sent: Monday, June 18, 2007 7:48 AM >>To: [email protected] >>Subject: RE: warehouse offices >> >>Chris, there is a lot of information missing in the question so my >>statements are to point out some issues that can have impact on the >>question to sprinkle or not. Lately in our dealings with a certain >>underwriter, they are becoming less tolerant of unsprinkled spaces that >>contain appreciable combustible loading from the items I mentioned. We >>often think that just because there's no wood or other large combustible >>objects that the space is of non-combustible construction and we're good >>to go and leave out the sprinklers. Because the code just refers to the >>construction type primarily. But while the building structure may be >>noncombustible, the objects related to mechanical and/or electrical >>systems may not be and at times the quantities of those items can be >>considerable. We just need to be smart enough to ask those type >>questions so that we are confident that there is not a potential hazard >>left unprotected. Each project is different and can not be treated in a >>"typical" manner. This is part of that Due Diligence issue, did we ask >>all the questions necessary to make an informed decision or just make >>assumptions? >> >>In your reference to the "Nonseparated Use" section of IBC, if that is >>used, then the entire building will be protected based on the most >>stringent requirements in order to assure adequate protection. There's >>no free lunch there, you end up paying more for overall building >>construction and life safety systems based on the greater hazard. When >>it's looked at overall, the separation wall will in many cases be a >>cheaper option. >> >> >> >>Craig L. Prahl, CET >>Fire Protection Group >>Mechanical Department >>CH2MHILL >>Lockwood Greene >>1500 International Drive >>PO Box 491, Spartanburg, SC 29304-0491 >>Direct - 864.599.4102 >>Fax - 864.599.8439 >>[EMAIL PROTECTED] >>http://www.lg.com >> >> >>-----Original Message----- >>From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] >>[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Chris >>Cahill >>Sent: Monday, June 18, 2007 9:17 AM >>To: [email protected] >>Subject: RE: warehouse offices >> >>Craig, except non-separated uses IBC 302.3. I see maybe 50% of the time >>there is a wall and never rated. >> >>Also your statement "If SNIP there are objects which are combustible >>(piping/duct insulation, wiring, plastic piping, etc) SNIP then yes, >>sprinkle it", seems a little strong. The presence of wire for lighting >>and computers, HVAC (non-metallic) and plastic roof drain or plumbing >>piping as examples in themselves do not drive sprinklers in an otherwise >>non-combustible concealed space. With your statement on the surface we'd >>sprinkler above every ACT in every office building. And plenum rated >>does not = non-combustible. >> >>Here's the bit more to the original question, >> >>Yes you sprinkler it as other have said. The trick is the first 15' >>have to be OHII (or what ever the warehouse design is). There after you >>can be LH if you want. Saves a few heads maybe a few lines if you are >>really lucky. >> >>Technically, thinking it through a bit more, the area beyond the 15' is >>LH which one could argue must be QR heads. Creates problems if for some >>reason you don't have QR heads over the OHII. Thinking a case where the >>roof is over 20' and there is no design advantage to the QR so you think >>to save a few buck a head and use SR. Another case might be EC OHII in >>the warehouse. >>AS far as I know all EC OH heads are SR listed. Granted they have the >>same bulb as the QR so maybe this could fly. >> >>Chris Cahill, P.E. >>Fire Protection Engineer >>Sentry Fire Protection, Inc. >> >>763-658-4483 >>763-658-4921 fax >> >>Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] >> >>Mail: P.O. Box 69 >> Waverly, MN 55390 >> >>Location: 4439 Hwy 12 SW >> Waverly, MN 55390 >>-----Original Message----- >>From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] >>[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of >>[EMAIL PROTECTED] >>Sent: Monday, June 18, 2007 7:29 AM >>To: [email protected] >>Subject: RE: warehouse offices >> >>The wall between the offices and the storage area should go to the roof >>and be rated per the building code since the storage area represents 70% >>of the floor space unless it's less than 3,000 sf and is sprinkled. >>Depending on these situations and what is being stored it should be >>either a 2 or 3 hour barrier. The architect or GC should have this >>figured out already. >> >>In either case if the space is completely inaccessible and is not >>capable of supporting storage, and doesn't contain any combustibles or >>equipment, I've never had an AHJ require sprinklers above the lay-in >>ceiling. >> >>If there is gas fired equipment or there is a platform or there are >>objects which are combustible (piping/duct insulation, wiring, plastic >>piping, etc) or it has some sort of access then yes, sprinkle it. >> >>I assume the offices will be sprinkled, right? >> >> >>Craig L. Prahl, CET >>Fire Protection Group >>Mechanical Department >>CH2MHILL >>Lockwood Greene >>1500 International Drive >>PO Box 491, Spartanburg, SC 29304-0491 >>Direct - 864.599.4102 >>Fax - 864.599.8439 >>[EMAIL PROTECTED] >>http://www.lg.com >> >> >>-----Original Message----- >>From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] >>[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Greg >>McGahan >>Sent: Saturday, June 16, 2007 1:29 PM >>To: [email protected] >>Subject: warehouse offices >> >>I have seen this situation handled 3 ways and have my own opinion but >>would like to see what you all think. >> >>If you have an ordinary metal building warehouse with normal Ord Hazard >>Group II storage with an office area you often end up with space above >>the offices. In this case the offices will have lay in tile ceilings >>with insulation on top of the ceiling and no structure above the >>ceiling. >>Therefore there will never be storage on top of the offices. There is >>Approximately 14' of clear space above the offices of non combustible >>construction with no separation between the space above the offices and >>the warehouse. >> >>The offices represent approx. 30% of the total area of the building. >> >> >>Sprinklers will be installed under the ceiling of the offices. >> >>Do you protect above the offices completely? >> >>Do you protect 15' of the space from the warehouse side? >> >>Do you ignore it? >> >>Thanks, >>Greg >> >> >>Living Water Fire Protection, LLC >>1160 McKenzie Road >>Cantonment, FL 32533 >>850-937-1850 >>Fax: 850-937-1852 >> >> >>_______________________________________________ >>Sprinklerforum mailing list >>[email protected] >>http://lists.firesprinkler.org/mailman/listinfo/sprinklerforum >> >>To Unsubscribe, send an email >>to:[EMAIL PROTECTED] >>(Put the word unsubscribe in the subject field) >>_______________________________________________ >>Sprinklerforum mailing list >>[email protected] >>http://lists.firesprinkler.org/mailman/listinfo/sprinklerforum >> >>To Unsubscribe, send an email >>to:[EMAIL PROTECTED] >>(Put the word unsubscribe in the subject field) >> >>_______________________________________________ >>Sprinklerforum mailing list >>[email protected] >>http://lists.firesprinkler.org/mailman/listinfo/sprinklerforum >> >>To Unsubscribe, send an email >>to:[EMAIL PROTECTED] >>(Put the word unsubscribe in the subject field) >>_______________________________________________ >>Sprinklerforum mailing list >>[email protected] >>http://lists.firesprinkler.org/mailman/listinfo/sprinklerforum >> >>To Unsubscribe, send an email >>to:[EMAIL PROTECTED] >>(Put the word unsubscribe in the subject field) >>_______________________________________________ >>Sprinklerforum mailing list >>[email protected] >>http://lists.firesprinkler.org/mailman/listinfo/sprinklerforum >> >>To Unsubscribe, send an email to:[EMAIL PROTECTED] >>(Put the word unsubscribe in the subject field) > > Todd G. Williams, PE > Fire Protection Design/Consulting > Stonington, Connecticut > 860-535-2080 > www.fpdc.com > _______________________________________________ > Sprinklerforum mailing list > [email protected] > http://lists.firesprinkler.org/mailman/listinfo/sprinklerforum > > To Unsubscribe, send an email to:[EMAIL PROTECTED] > (Put the word unsubscribe in the subject field) > _______________________________________________ Sprinklerforum mailing list [email protected] http://lists.firesprinkler.org/mailman/listinfo/sprinklerforum To Unsubscribe, send an email to:[EMAIL PROTECTED] (Put the word unsubscribe in the subject field) _______________________________________________ Sprinklerforum mailing list [email protected] http://lists.firesprinkler.org/mailman/listinfo/sprinklerforum To Unsubscribe, send an email to:[EMAIL PROTECTED] (Put the word unsubscribe in the subject field)
