Auxiliary is a good word. It's a razor thin line between auxiliary and supplement. It would be impossible for the engineer at the pump controls on the side of the truck to know when he's aux'ing or supp'ing.
Russell Rewis Brown Automatic Sprinklers, Inc. 107C Hemlock Street Valdosta, Georgia 31601 229-244-8130 [EMAIL PROTECTED] -----Original Message----- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Fletcher, Ron Sent: Friday, July 18, 2008 1:40 PM To: [email protected] Subject: RE: FDC Connection Flow and pressure cannot be supplemented (boosted) given the valve arrangement required by NFPA. The main riser check valve is either open or closed. The handbook calls it an "auxiliary water supply" to the system. Supplementing the automatic supply and increasing overall reliability. I have run into a lot of AHJ's that think the FDC will add to the flow and pressure from the city supply like a booster pump but it will not. The FDC becomes the sole source of water and pressure when used. Ron Fletcher Aero Automatic Sprinkler Phoenix, AZ -----Original Message----- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Thom McMahon Sent: Friday, July 18, 2008 9:59 AM To: [email protected] Subject: RE: FDC Connection YES! SUPPLEMENTAL! As stated in NFPA 13, 2007 handbook A.6.8.1 You can do whatever you want thru those 2-2-1/2" connections, but somehow I don't think they were ever intended to "Supply" the entire demand for an ESFR 40' warehouse, or a .3/3000 design area, or a large deluge at a refinery, or--or---or--. If you do that dangerous thing (use Logic) we should only rely on 2-2-1/2" connections for up to 500 GPM. (See NFPA 14) Obviously you can, with the right pumper, and the right hydrant, flow more than 500 at an elevated pressure. But if it was the intent to "Supply" the entire system demand through the FDC, why are we not required to prove it? With a hyd. Calc. using the nearest hydrant and the smallest pumper or responding engine, and appropriate hose and friction loss? You really want to go down that path? Thom McMahon, SET Firetech, Inc. 2560 Copper Ridge Dr P.O. Box 882136 Steamboat Springs, CO 80488 Tel: 970-879-7952 Fax: 970-879-7926 -----Original Message----- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Fletcher, Ron Sent: Friday, July 18, 2008 9:05 AM To: [email protected] Subject: RE: FDC Connection Supplemental? If 150 psi is pumped into the FDC the riser check will close making the FDC the only supply. Ron Fletcher Aero Automatic Phoenix, AZ -----Original Message----- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Thom McMahon Sent: Friday, July 18, 2008 7:45 AM To: [email protected] Subject: RE: FDC Connection I think it's important to remember that the FDC is "supplemental" to the supply, not "Equal" to a supply. I feel that the 4" tied to the 2-1/2" MAIN meets the intent of the standard. It does not need to be 4" all the way from the riser to the FDC, when the FDC is remote from the riser and connects to a MAIN. Thom McMahon, SET Firetech, Inc. 2560 Copper Ridge Dr P.O. Box 882136 Steamboat Springs, CO 80488 Tel: 970-879-7952 Fax: 970-879-7926 -----Original Message----- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Garth W. Warren Sent: Friday, July 18, 2008 9:38 AM To: [email protected] Subject: Re: FDC Connection it should be 4" from the connection to the main and then connected through a 21/2x21/2x4 tee. I disagree that NFPA allows for connection anywhere on the system, it states "provided the pipe size meets the requirements of 8.17.2.3." Otherwise "creative" companies would have 1" fdc piping connected to the end of a line. Garth ----- Original Message ----- From: "Brian Harris" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: <[email protected]> Sent: Friday, July 18, 2008 9:02 AM Subject: RE: FDC Connection > The FDC is actually remote from the riser & ties into a 2-1/2" floating > main. I think it should at least be 4" all the way to the back main and then > reduce it there.... > > > Brian Harris > FDFP INC. > > -----Original Message----- > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of > [EMAIL PROTECTED] > Sent: Friday, July 18, 2008 8:48 AM > To: [email protected] > Subject: Re: FDC Connection > > NFPA 13, 2007, section 8.17.2.3, (3) - For hydraulically calculated systems, > the fire department connection shall be permitted to be less than > 4 in. and no less than the size of the system riser, where serving one > system riser. > > My opinion is that the pipe from the FDC itself to the riser needs to be 4" > minimum. Based on your description I would interpret that as saying that > the 2 1/2" pipe on the FDC is not permitted as the riser is 4" and I am > assuming the 2 1/2" reduction is between the FDC and the riser. > > My opinion only. > > Andrew Weisfield > > > > > "Brian Harris" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Sent by: > [EMAIL PROTECTED] > 07/18/2008 08:36 AM > Please respond to > [email protected] > > > To > <[email protected]> > cc > > Subject > FDC Connection > > > > > > > Forum, > Quick FDC connection, I just saw on some drawings that came in that the > FDC > is 4" with a 4" check valve and then reduced down to 2-1/2" with a > reducing > coupling. The system riser is 4", can you choke it down like that? > Technically the FDC is the same size as the riser but where do you draw > the > line? I'm not liking it, what say you??? > > > Regards, > > > <http://www.firstdefensefire.com/> > > > > > > > > > E-mail message checked by Spyware Doctor (6.0.0.354) > Database version: 5.10290e > http://www.pctools.com/en/spyware-doctor-antivirus/ > _______________________________________________ > Sprinklerforum mailing list > [email protected] > http://lists.firesprinkler.org/mailman/listinfo/sprinklerforum > > To Unsubscribe, send an email to:[EMAIL PROTECTED] > (Put the word unsubscribe in the subject field) > > > > This email is intended for named recipients only. > _______________________________________________ > Sprinklerforum mailing list > [email protected] > http://lists.firesprinkler.org/mailman/listinfo/sprinklerforum > > To Unsubscribe, send an email to:[EMAIL PROTECTED] > (Put the word unsubscribe in the subject field) > > > > > > E-mail message checked by Spyware Doctor (6.0.0.354) > Database version: 5.10290e > http://www.pctools.com/en/spyware-doctor-antivirus/ > > > > > > E-mail message checked by Spyware Doctor (6.0.0.354) > Database version: 5.10290e > http://www.pctools.com/en/spyware-doctor-antivirus/ > _______________________________________________ > Sprinklerforum mailing list > [email protected] > http://lists.firesprinkler.org/mailman/listinfo/sprinklerforum > > To Unsubscribe, send an email to:[EMAIL PROTECTED] > (Put the word unsubscribe in the subject field) > _______________________________________________ Sprinklerforum mailing list [email protected] http://lists.firesprinkler.org/mailman/listinfo/sprinklerforum To Unsubscribe, send an email to:[EMAIL PROTECTED] (Put the word unsubscribe in the subject field) No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - http://www.avg.com Version: 8.0.138 / Virus Database: 270.5.1/1559 - Release Date: 7/17/2008 6:08 PM _______________________________________________ Sprinklerforum mailing list [email protected] http://lists.firesprinkler.org/mailman/listinfo/sprinklerforum To Unsubscribe, send an email to:[EMAIL PROTECTED] (Put the word unsubscribe in the subject field) _______________________________________________ Sprinklerforum mailing list [email protected] http://lists.firesprinkler.org/mailman/listinfo/sprinklerforum To Unsubscribe, send an email to:[EMAIL PROTECTED] (Put the word unsubscribe in the subject field) No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - http://www.avg.com Version: 8.0.138 / Virus Database: 270.5.1/1559 - Release Date: 7/17/2008 6:08 PM _______________________________________________ Sprinklerforum mailing list [email protected] http://lists.firesprinkler.org/mailman/listinfo/sprinklerforum To Unsubscribe, send an email to:[EMAIL PROTECTED] (Put the word unsubscribe in the subject field) _______________________________________________ Sprinklerforum mailing list [email protected] http://lists.firesprinkler.org/mailman/listinfo/sprinklerforum To Unsubscribe, send an email to:[EMAIL PROTECTED] (Put the word unsubscribe in the subject field) No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - http://www.avg.com Version: 8.0.138 / Virus Database: 270.5.1/1560 - Release Date: 7/18/2008 6:47 AM _______________________________________________ Sprinklerforum mailing list [email protected] http://lists.firesprinkler.org/mailman/listinfo/sprinklerforum To Unsubscribe, send an email to:[EMAIL PROTECTED] (Put the word unsubscribe in the subject field)
