Those thinking Thom and Ken having a drink together would be interesting to watch, not to mention the ensuing conversation, might be interested in knowing that it is likely to occur in the Providence, RI area in early October. Coincidently, that's the AFSA Convention. And if you think they might talk about fellow forumites and enjoy looking back at Chris's test oven and other interesting events over the past year, you're absolutely correct.
Come defend your honor from those that would make fun of you in your absence- come to the AFSA Convention and we'll make fun of each other in person and have a good time- while earning CEU credits and making new friends, seeing new products, and avoiding letting Thom drive to the go-kart track(he did, in his defense, flick the wheel at the last second and avoid killing his PE wife, the Sornsin brothers, our resident 14 expert who got the fastest lap award, a MI homebuilder and yours truly). It's certainly an annual event for a lot of us. Come see why! glc -----Original Message----- From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of ParsleyConsulting Sent: Tuesday, May 04, 2010 1:37 PM To: [email protected] Subject: Re: boat storage Tom, I have to agree with my friend up in Steamboat Springs. The information you've provided on the forum appears to be almost a textbook case of a disaster waiting to happen - for you. Here are some conditions you've explained which would make he have no hesitation at all in turning down this project: 1 - the engineer of record has given you a boilerplate statement, "follow NFPA". There is no specific NFPA guidance so the engineer has both not done their job in determining that information, and in not developing a protection design that they will stand behind with THEIR errors and omissions insurance when the codes and standards don't cover the configuration and commodity. The last time I looked at my own certification from NICET, it didn't entitle me to make that sort of decision, however the laws may be different where you are. 2 - you're discussing utilizing ESFR sprinklers, which have very specific, narrow, and rigid listings for design and installation. Nothing I've seen in any listing data from three manufacturers, Tyco, Viking, and Reliable, seems to even remotely suggest that they manufacture ESFR's which are listed for rack storage of boats as you describe. If you were to design such a system with ESFR's you are asking for them to be installed outside of the listing, meaning the manufacturer won't stand behind it when it gets to court. Now, you've not only accepted the responsibility of the engineer of record, but the liability of the manufacturer as well. That's two pretty huge lead weights to carry on your back. 3 - without testing or language from a code or standard to support your approach to this storage configuration you're making a guess as to what will work to control a fire in a very challenging environment without anything to support your conclusions. If you don't have fire test or modeling done to test your theories of whether or not your approach has any chance of controlling such a fire, you're in effect acting as an engineer without being licensed or registered to do so. I don't know about where you live, but here in California that's a huge violation of existing law. Oh, one other minor note, and I don't mention this to split hairs, but in one of your earlier posts you mentioned "density" when you were talking about ESFR sprinklers. As I'm sure you know, density has nothing to do with ESFR technology. Here's hoping you decide to pass on this project unless you get specific guidance from the EOR. In summary, if this molten spud were dumped in my lap, I'd dump it right back, and drive straight to the bar with Thom McMahon. And if you join us, I'll buy the first round. -- PARSLEY CONSULTING Ken Wagoner, SET 760.745.6181 voice 760.745.0537 fax [email protected] <mailto:[email protected]> e-mail www.ParsleyConsulting.com <http://www.ParsleyConsulting.com> website > -----Original Message----- > From: [email protected] > [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of tom poisal > Sent: Monday, May 03, 2010 6:43 PM > To: [email protected] > Subject: Re: boat storage > > okay Todd so today, what do I do? > _______________________________________________ Sprinklerforum mailing list [email protected] http://fireball.firesprinkler.org/mailman/listinfo/sprinklerforum For Technical Assistance, send an email to: [email protected] To Unsubscribe, send an email to:[email protected] (Put the word unsubscribe in the subject field) _______________________________________________ Sprinklerforum mailing list [email protected] http://fireball.firesprinkler.org/mailman/listinfo/sprinklerforum For Technical Assistance, send an email to: [email protected] To Unsubscribe, send an email to:[email protected] (Put the word unsubscribe in the subject field)
