Just to be clear Richard, as an AHJ I took no offense to anything you said. On a personal level, however, I have an aversion for AHJ's who pull requirements out of thin air just because they think they have the power to do so. I have news for them, they DO NOT have such power; and they're treading on very thin ice when they do. But that's not to say I won't try to convince someone to do something that's not in the code because I think it's a good idea, I just won't hide behind my authority to make you do it.
Regarding those "one horse town" officials, whenever they make outrageous demands you might try the Feel, Felt, Found approach: "I know how you feel officer. I felt the same way about the matter; but here's what I found to work best of all". Empathize with them and make them your friend. Help them to learn and give them solutions, but make them think it's their idea. Pretty soon, they'll be calling you for advice. Take care of you, Galen Taylor County of Los Angeles Fire Department Fire Prevention Engineering 323-890-4339 [email protected] -----Original Message----- From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Richard Mote Sent: Thursday, December 05, 2013 1:41 PM To: [email protected] Subject: RE: NFPA 13D or 13? In re reading my earlier posts I may have misstated my position regarding AHJ's. Almost all the AHJ's I encounter are knowledgeable professionals and are willing to discuss any issues that come up. As a point of fact I have not personally spoken with the AHJ on this project, the information was passed on to me via forwarded emails from the GC. That being said, PA has a lot of little one horse towns (the town where I make my residence has one traffic light) where the AHJ wear's a dozen different hats or is a third part inspector that contracts with the Borough or Township. These are the guys I sometimes have issues with. Richard L. Mote Rowe Sprinkler Systems, Inc. -----Original Message----- From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Taylor, Galen Sent: Thursday, December 05, 2013 4:21 PM To: [email protected] Subject: RE: NFPA 13D or 13? Richard, As an AHJ I thought I understood what your AHJ was asking. I was even preparing a cogent explanation to help you understand; but then you posted this comment about how the AHJ is asking for sprinklers because the builder chose to use TJI's rather than 2x12's. I would ask the AHJ if his requirements are based on a specific code section or his/her opinion. I'll wager, it's based on opinion not code. As an AHJ, I'm not in the habit of requiring anything that's NOT in the code. Sometimes that means I have to accept certain things regardless of what my opinion may be. I have also found that Architects/Engineers/Contractors will do one of two things: 1) Roll over and do whatever the AHJ asks or 2) Demand to see where the requirement is in the code and/or appeal to higher authority. Bottom line ... sprinklers are NOT required and neither is drywall to protect the ceiling. Of course, that knocks you out of a job, but helping the owner/builder to get out of this mess will create goodwill and help to ensure future contracts due to your honesty. Best wishes for a mutually satisfactory outcome, Galen Taylor County of Los Angeles Fire Department Fire Prevention Engineering 323-890-4339 [email protected] -----Original Message----- From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Richard Mote Sent: Thursday, December 05, 2013 12:40 PM To: [email protected] Subject: RE: NFPA 13D or 13? The AHJ is telling the builder that if they had used conventional framing IE, 2"x12" @ 16 oc there would not be an issue. He says that the TJI's will burn faster than conventional framing therefore he wants them protected by dry wall, fire proofing or sprinklers. Richard L. Mote Rowe Sprinkler Systems, Inc. 7994 Route 522, Suite 1 PO Box 407 Middleburg, PA 17842 P 570-837-7647 F 570-837-6335 -----Original Message----- From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Sprinkler Design Services Sent: Thursday, December 05, 2013 3:35 PM To: [email protected] Subject: RE: NFPA 13D or 13? It seems like it would be massive overkill to design this per 13, so I'd do the design for 13D. It might be prudent to ask the AHJ for his opinion since he seems to modifying the rules at his fancy. Marc Walter, SET Sprinkler Design Services Seaside, OR 97138 (503) 956-4019 -----Original Message----- From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Richard Mote Sent: Thursday, December 05, 2013 12:12 PM To: [email protected] Subject: NFPA 13D or 13? I guess I will have to show my ignorance, I can count on one hand the number of 13D systems I have designed in the last 10 years. This project is a 13D single family custom home with a basement of 2746 sq. ft. the AHJ is requiring that the basement be sprinklered, but he isn't requiring the rest of the house to have sprinklers. Since this would normally be part of a 13D system do I just do a 2 head calculation and call it done? Or do I calculate a 900 sq. ft. area, per 13. (It does meet all the criteria for area reduction) My thinking is that even though the basement could be protected per 13D if the entire house was covered, since this is a special requirement by the AHJ I should calculate per 13. BTW the 2007 codes are the applicable standards at this time. The owner is going to have to install tanks and a pump so the difference in demand is a big deal. Richard L. Mote CET Rowe Sprinkler Systems, Inc. 7994 Route 522, Suite 1 PO Box 407 Middleburg, PA 17842 P 570-837-7647 F 570-837-6335 _______________________________________________ Sprinklerforum mailing list [email protected] http://lists.firesprinkler.org/listinfo.cgi/sprinklerforum-firesprinkler.org _______________________________________________ Sprinklerforum mailing list [email protected] http://lists.firesprinkler.org/listinfo.cgi/sprinklerforum-firesprinkler.org _______________________________________________ Sprinklerforum mailing list [email protected] http://lists.firesprinkler.org/listinfo.cgi/sprinklerforum-firesprinkler.org _______________________________________________ Sprinklerforum mailing list [email protected] http://lists.firesprinkler.org/listinfo.cgi/sprinklerforum-firesprinkler.org _______________________________________________ Sprinklerforum mailing list [email protected] http://lists.firesprinkler.org/listinfo.cgi/sprinklerforum-firesprinkler.org _______________________________________________ Sprinklerforum mailing list [email protected] http://lists.firesprinkler.org/listinfo.cgi/sprinklerforum-firesprinkler.org
