I think the point that Todd is trying to make is that normally the air is purged from the all the pipes on an Antifreeze system. Sounds like poor workmanship to me.
Regards, G. Tim Stone G. Tim Stone Consulting, LLC NICET Level III Engineering Technician Fire Protection Sprinkler Design and Consulting Services 117 Old Stage Rd. - Essex Jct., VT. 05452 CELL: (802) 373-0638 TEL: (802) 434-2968 Fax: (802) 434-4343 [email protected] -----Original Message----- From: Sprinklerforum [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Mark A. Sornsin, P.E. Sent: Thursday, November 13, 2014 12:41 PM To: [email protected] Subject: RE: Antifreeze-recipe for disaster? So as the N2 is absorbed by the antifreeze, is there any loss of volume (and subsequent reduction in pressure) in the piping that would allow water to migrate into the AF lines? If so, how much? Or does the 'Nitrogenated' AF solution simply expand to occupy the space held by the pure N2 under the same pressure? Mark A. Sornsin, P.E. | Karges-Faulconbridge, Inc. | Fire Protection Engineer | Fargo, ND | direct: 701.552.9905 | mobile: 701.371.5759 | http://www.kfiengineers.com -----Original Message----- From: Sprinklerforum [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of [email protected] Sent: Thursday, November 13, 2014 11:32 AM To: [email protected] Subject: RE: Antifreeze-recipe for disaster? I would bet the nitrogen never "leaks out of the system", based on Henry's Law, as the nitrogen dissolves into solution under pressure. And by using nitrogen as the pressurizing agent, no increase in oxidation (corrosion) is imparted. I'm aware that nitrogen has been used to pressurize sprinkler piping for various reasons for at least thirty years. Mark at Aero -----Original Message----- From: Sprinklerforum [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Mark A. Sornsin, P.E. Sent: Thursday, November 13, 2014 9:01 AM To: [email protected] Subject: RE: Antifreeze-recipe for disaster? C'mon, Todd. WHY is he the missing link? ...because there is no way of know with certainty how much water will enter the AF piping after all of the N2 eventually leaks out. The presents the possibility of a freezable AF system. I suppose one could calculate the exact volume of the AF piping and measure the exact amount of AF pumped into the system prior to charging with N2, proving that the water couldn't migrate too far.... I would hope that approach was well documented prior to the freeze event and lawsuit. Mark A. Sornsin, P.E. | Karges-Faulconbridge, Inc. | Fire Protection Engineer | Fargo, ND | direct: 701.552.9905 | mobile: 701.371.5759 | http://www.kfiengineers.com -----Original Message----- From: Sprinklerforum [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Todd Williams Sent: Wednesday, November 12, 2014 8:13 PM To: [email protected] Subject: Re: Antifreeze-recipe for disaster? No, but I think the guy that did it is the missing link. Todd G Williams, PE Fire Protection Design/Consulting Stonington, CT 860-535-2080 www.fpdc.com > On Nov 12, 2014, at 8:58 PM, Thomas Watt <[email protected]> wrote: > > I recently encountered a scenario which I felt this group would enjoy > chewing on. > While draining an AF system to replace another leaking(@brass/steel > interface) no-torque head adapter, huge bursts of mist, aerosolized > glycerin mix, came out. > It seems that this company has an s.o.p. of pumping af into dead end > system(no purge) using a cheap pump which only permits about 50psi. > They then jack the system pressure above static with compressed nitrogen. > Has anybody ever seen this done before? Am I off base here or is this > possibly the missing link? > _______________________________________________ > Sprinklerforum mailing list > [email protected] > http://lists.firesprinkler.org/listinfo.cgi/sprinklerforum-firesprinkl > er.org _______________________________________________ Sprinklerforum mailing list [email protected] http://lists.firesprinkler.org/listinfo.cgi/sprinklerforum-firesprinkler.org ______________________________________________________________________ This email has been scanned by the Symantec Email Security.cloud service. For more information please visit http://www.symanteccloud.com ______________________________________________________________________ ______________________________________________________________________ This email has been scanned by the Symantec Email Security.cloud service. For more information please visit http://www.symanteccloud.com ______________________________________________________________________ _______________________________________________ Sprinklerforum mailing list [email protected] http://lists.firesprinkler.org/listinfo.cgi/sprinklerforum-firesprinkler.org _______________________________________________ Sprinklerforum mailing list [email protected] http://lists.firesprinkler.org/listinfo.cgi/sprinklerforum-firesprinkler.org ______________________________________________________________________ This email has been scanned by the Symantec Email Security.cloud service. For more information please visit http://www.symanteccloud.com ______________________________________________________________________ ______________________________________________________________________ This email has been scanned by the Symantec Email Security.cloud service. For more information please visit http://www.symanteccloud.com ______________________________________________________________________ _______________________________________________ Sprinklerforum mailing list [email protected] http://lists.firesprinkler.org/listinfo.cgi/sprinklerforum-firesprinkler.org _______________________________________________ Sprinklerforum mailing list [email protected] http://lists.firesprinkler.org/listinfo.cgi/sprinklerforum-firesprinkler.org
