The point I was trying to make is the aerosolization of the antifreeze by the velocity of escaping air and gas. Could this be the cause of the explosion incidents? Has this scenario been tested? On Nov 13, 2014 11:07 AM, <[email protected]> wrote:
> I would bet not. My opinion is that the largest cause of the water > "migration" in an anti-freeze system is the result of thermal > expansion/contraction of the volume of the fluid. If the pressure > differential at the check valve is sufficient, dilution by migration should > be minimal. > > Mark at Aero > 602 820-7894 > > Sent from my iPhone > > > On Nov 13, 2014, at 10:42 AM, "Mark A. Sornsin, P.E." < > [email protected]> wrote: > > > > So as the N2 is absorbed by the antifreeze, is there any loss of volume > (and subsequent reduction in pressure) in the piping that would allow water > to migrate into the AF lines? If so, how much? Or does the 'Nitrogenated' > AF solution simply expand to occupy the space held by the pure N2 under the > same pressure? > > > > Mark A. Sornsin, P.E. | Karges-Faulconbridge, Inc. | Fire Protection > Engineer | Fargo, ND | direct: 701.552.9905 | mobile: 701.371.5759 | > http://www.kfiengineers.com > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: Sprinklerforum [mailto: > [email protected]] On Behalf Of > [email protected] > > Sent: Thursday, November 13, 2014 11:32 AM > > To: [email protected] > > Subject: RE: Antifreeze-recipe for disaster? > > > > I would bet the nitrogen never "leaks out of the system", based on > Henry's Law, as the nitrogen dissolves into solution under pressure. And by > using nitrogen as the pressurizing agent, no increase in oxidation > (corrosion) is imparted. I'm aware that nitrogen has been used to > pressurize sprinkler piping for various reasons for at least thirty years. > > Mark at Aero > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: Sprinklerforum [mailto: > [email protected]] On Behalf Of Mark A. > Sornsin, P.E. > > Sent: Thursday, November 13, 2014 9:01 AM > > To: [email protected] > > Subject: RE: Antifreeze-recipe for disaster? > > > > C'mon, Todd. WHY is he the missing link? > > > > > > ...because there is no way of know with certainty how much water will > enter the AF piping after all of the N2 eventually leaks out. The presents > the possibility of a freezable AF system. I suppose one could calculate the > exact volume of the AF piping and measure the exact amount of AF pumped > into the system prior to charging with N2, proving that the water couldn't > migrate too far.... I would hope that approach was well documented prior to > the freeze event and lawsuit. > > > > Mark A. Sornsin, P.E. | Karges-Faulconbridge, Inc. | Fire Protection > Engineer | Fargo, ND | direct: 701.552.9905 | mobile: 701.371.5759 | > http://www.kfiengineers.com > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: Sprinklerforum [mailto: > [email protected]] On Behalf Of Todd Williams > > Sent: Wednesday, November 12, 2014 8:13 PM > > To: [email protected] > > Subject: Re: Antifreeze-recipe for disaster? > > > > No, but I think the guy that did it is the missing link. > > > > Todd G Williams, PE > > Fire Protection Design/Consulting > > Stonington, CT > > 860-535-2080 > > www.fpdc.com > > > > > >> On Nov 12, 2014, at 8:58 PM, Thomas Watt < > [email protected]> wrote: > >> > >> I recently encountered a scenario which I felt this group would enjoy > >> chewing on. > >> While draining an AF system to replace another leaking(@brass/steel > >> interface) no-torque head adapter, huge bursts of mist, aerosolized > >> glycerin mix, came out. > >> It seems that this company has an s.o.p. of pumping af into dead end > >> system(no purge) using a cheap pump which only permits about 50psi. > >> They then jack the system pressure above static with compressed > nitrogen. > >> Has anybody ever seen this done before? Am I off base here or is this > >> possibly the missing link? > >> _______________________________________________ > >> Sprinklerforum mailing list > >> [email protected] > >> http://lists.firesprinkler.org/listinfo.cgi/sprinklerforum-firesprinkl > >> er.org > > _______________________________________________ > > Sprinklerforum mailing list > > [email protected] > > > http://lists.firesprinkler.org/listinfo.cgi/sprinklerforum-firesprinkler.org > > > > ______________________________________________________________________ > > This email has been scanned by the Symantec Email Security.cloud service. > > For more information please visit http://www.symanteccloud.com > ______________________________________________________________________ > > > > ______________________________________________________________________ > > This email has been scanned by the Symantec Email Security.cloud service. > > For more information please visit http://www.symanteccloud.com > ______________________________________________________________________ > > _______________________________________________ > > Sprinklerforum mailing list > > [email protected] > > > http://lists.firesprinkler.org/listinfo.cgi/sprinklerforum-firesprinkler.org > > _______________________________________________ > > Sprinklerforum mailing list > > [email protected] > > > http://lists.firesprinkler.org/listinfo.cgi/sprinklerforum-firesprinkler.org > > > > ______________________________________________________________________ > > This email has been scanned by the Symantec Email Security.cloud service. > > For more information please visit http://www.symanteccloud.com > ______________________________________________________________________ > > > > ______________________________________________________________________ > > This email has been scanned by the Symantec Email Security.cloud service. > > For more information please visit http://www.symanteccloud.com > > ______________________________________________________________________ > > _______________________________________________ > > Sprinklerforum mailing list > > [email protected] > > > http://lists.firesprinkler.org/listinfo.cgi/sprinklerforum-firesprinkler.org > _______________________________________________ > Sprinklerforum mailing list > [email protected] > > http://lists.firesprinkler.org/listinfo.cgi/sprinklerforum-firesprinkler.org > _______________________________________________ Sprinklerforum mailing list [email protected] http://lists.firesprinkler.org/listinfo.cgi/sprinklerforum-firesprinkler.org
