Thanks Travis. Perfect. That is what I remember. John
Sprinklers Save > On Apr 13, 2015, at 9:36 AM, Tom Wellen <[email protected]> wrote: > > Hence, that is the subject of Today’s Technical Update. If you are not > getting Technical Updates as an AFSA member benefit, sign up. > > > Small Room Design With Residential Sprinklers > > "We are doing a NFPA 13 design with residential sprinklers. Section > 11.3.1.3(2) allows calculating the area of coverage by the provisions of > either 8.5.2.1 or 8.6.2.1.2. Does 8.6.2.1.2 apply to just pendent sprinklers > or can it be applied to sidewall sprinklers?" > > We have reviewed the 2013 edition of NFPA 13 as the applicable standard. Our > informal interpretation is that it applies to all types of residential > sprinklers. > > It is understandable that there is some confusion here because Section 8.6 is > just for pendent sprinklers. By Section 11.3.1.3 saying the provisions of > 8.6.2.1.2 apply means it is the methodology that is being discussed. Keep in > mind that this section is referring to the half of the calculation where you > assign a density of 0.1 gpm/sq. ft. to the residential sprinkler. You still > have to perform a calculation based on the listing of sprinkler that accounts > for the needs of the different sprinkler types. This has been cleaned up for > the 2016 edition (see FR-261) that will say: > > (3) In rooms or compartments 800 sq. ft. (74.3 sq. m) or less calculated > based on delivering a minimum of 0.1 gpm/sq. ft. (4.1 mm/min) over the room > or the compartment using the area of the room divided by the number of > sprinklers in the room. > > This change emphasizes that it applies only to small rooms of no more than > 800 sq. ft. (when larger you must use 8.5.2.1) and that it applies to all > residential sprinklers. > > > >> On Apr 13, 2015, at 8:27 AM, John Denhardt <[email protected]> >> wrote: >> >> This was a lengthy discussion at a recent committee meeting. My position was >> it does not apply to sidewalls. Many of the committee said it did apply to >> sidewalls. For 2016, it should be clearer that it does apply to sidewalls. >> >> Sprinklers Save >> >>> On Apr 13, 2015, at 9:16 AM, Travis Mack <[email protected]> wrote: >>> >>> That section appears to apply to residential sprinklers in general. The >>> portion in chapter 11 (2013 edition) points you to a specific section to >>> describe area per sprinkler for residential sprinklers. I believe 2007 has >>> the same wording. >>> >>> The section in chapter 8 that is referenced is for SSP/SSU. But chapter 11 >>> specifically points you to the section about area. It is my understanding >>> that it applies to residential sidewall and pendent. >>> >>> Will be interesting to see others opinion on this. >>> >>> Travis Mack, SET >>> MFP Design, LLC >>> "Follow" us on Facebook: >>> https://www.facebook.com/pages/MFP-Design-LLC/92218417692 >>> Send large files to MFP Design via: >>> https://www.hightail.com/u/MFPDesign >>> >>> Sent from my iPhone >>> >>>> On Apr 13, 2015, at 6:00 AM, John Denhardt <[email protected]> >>>> wrote: >>>> >>>> Agree, but in my opinion this rule did not apply to sidewalls. However, >>>> the 2016 edition might be adding sidewalls specifically. >>>> >>>> Do not call about Stephs phoneSprinklers Save >>>> >>>>> On Apr 13, 2015, at 8:44 AM, Travis Mack <[email protected]> wrote: >>>>> >>>>> Dewayne: >>>>> >>>>> I don't have the references in front of me but can get later today if you >>>>> need. >>>>> >>>>> In NFPA 13, if you need the requirements for a small room, you can take >>>>> the area of the room divided by the number of sprinklers in the room to >>>>> get the area per sprinkler. >>>>> >>>>> You then compare that to the listing of your sprinkler and use whichever >>>>> is greater. >>>>> >>>>> For example, a 600 sq ft room with 4 residential sprinklers is 150 sq ft >>>>> per sprinkler. At 0.10 you have a minimum of 15 gpm. If sprinklers are 8' >>>>> off walls and no more than 16 ft apart, the listing for a 4.9k pendent is >>>>> 13 gpm so you use the 15 gpm from above. >>>>> >>>>> If your sprinklers at 9' off walls, then you use 17 gpm because that is >>>>> the listing for 18' spacing of a 4.9k sprinkler. >>>>> >>>>> I can find the exact references later today if you are unable to locate. >>>>> However, if you find where it says to do 4 sprinkler for residential >>>>> sprinklers, it is the next line or two down that points you to be the >>>>> room area method for standard spray that i mentioned above. >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> Travis Mack, SET >>>>> MFP Design, LLC >>>>> "Follow" us on Facebook: >>>>> https://www.facebook.com/pages/MFP-Design-LLC/92218417692 >>>>> Send large files to MFP Design via: >>>>> https://www.hightail.com/u/MFPDesign >>>>> >>>>> Sent from my iPhone >>>>> >>>>>> On Apr 13, 2015, at 5:07 AM, Dewayne Martinez >>>>>> <[email protected]> wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>> It would but I am using residential pendant sprinklers and the small room >>>>>> rule only applies to standard throw sprinklers. >>>>>> I guess that's the tradeoff I need to deal with for only wanting to calc >>>>>> 4 >>>>>> sprinklers and using extended coverage. >>>>>> >>>>>> -----Original Message----- >>>>>> From: Sprinklerforum >>>>>> [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of John >>>>>> Denhardt >>>>>> Sent: Monday, April 13, 2015 6:46 AM >>>>>> To: <[email protected]> >>>>>> Subject: Re: NFPA 13 (07ed) apartment obstructions >>>>>> >>>>>> Does the small room apply? If so, use .05 x small room rule or listing >>>>>> whichever is larger. >>>>>> >>>>>> Sprinklers Save >>>>>> >>>>>>>> On Apr 13, 2015, at 7:38 AM, Dewayne Martinez >>>>>>> <[email protected]> wrote: >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Thanks for confirming Jerry. The light is small and It just looks >>>>>>> weird to have a head so far away from the center of the room where the >>>>>>> light is located. Of course when I have to offset the sprinkler so >>>>>>> much it affects my calculations since it is a 13 application. Glad >>>>>>> the salesman bid it as if there were no lights present :) Thanks, >>>>>>> Dewayne >>>>>>> >>>>>>> -----Original Message----- >>>>>>> From: Sprinklerforum >>>>>>> [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of >>>>>>> Jerry Van Kolken >>>>>>> Sent: Thursday, April 09, 2015 6:49 PM >>>>>>> To: [email protected] >>>>>>> Subject: RE: NFPA 13 (07ed) apartment obstructions >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Looks like your you using the 4x rule . You should only need a single >>>>>>> head at 36" away. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Jerry Van Kolken >>>>>>> Millennium Fire Protection >>>>>>> (760) 722-2722 >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> -----Original Message----- >>>>>>> From: Sprinklerforum >>>>>>> [mailto:[email protected]] >>>>>>> On Behalf Of Dewayne Martinez >>>>>>> Sent: Thursday, April 09, 2015 10:16 AM >>>>>>> To: [email protected] >>>>>>> Subject: NFPA 13 (07ed) apartment obstructions >>>>>>> >>>>>>> I am using residential concealed pendant sprinklers in a NFPA 13 >>>>>>> apartment complex. Many of the rooms have a surface mounted domed >>>>>>> light which is about 12in in diameter and 5in deep at the center. It >>>>>>> seems to me that I must maintain at least 36in away from the edge of >>>>>>> the light per figure >>>>>>> 8.10.6.2.1.3 or install a sprinkler on both sides correct? >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Thanks, >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Dewayne >>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>> Sprinklerforum mailing list >>>>>>> [email protected] >>>>>>> http://lists.firesprinkler.org/listinfo.cgi/sprinklerforum-firesprinkl >>>>>>> er.o >>>>>>> rg >>>>>>> >>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>> Sprinklerforum mailing list >>>>>>> [email protected] >>>>>>> http://lists.firesprinkler.org/listinfo.cgi/sprinklerforum-firesprinkl >>>>>>> er.o >>>>>>> rg >>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>> Sprinklerforum mailing list >>>>>>> [email protected] >>>>>>> http://lists.firesprinkler.org/listinfo.cgi/sprinklerforum-firesprinkl >>>>>>> er.org >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> Sprinklerforum mailing list >>>>>> [email protected] >>>>>> http://lists.firesprinkler.org/listinfo.cgi/sprinklerforum-firesprinkler.o >>>>>> rg >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> Sprinklerforum mailing list >>>>>> [email protected] >>>>>> http://lists.firesprinkler.org/listinfo.cgi/sprinklerforum-firesprinkler.org >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> Sprinklerforum mailing list >>>>> [email protected] >>>>> http://lists.firesprinkler.org/listinfo.cgi/sprinklerforum-firesprinkler.org >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> Sprinklerforum mailing list >>>> [email protected] >>>> http://lists.firesprinkler.org/listinfo.cgi/sprinklerforum-firesprinkler.org >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Sprinklerforum mailing list >>> [email protected] >>> http://lists.firesprinkler.org/listinfo.cgi/sprinklerforum-firesprinkler.org >> _______________________________________________ >> Sprinklerforum mailing list >> [email protected] >> http://lists.firesprinkler.org/listinfo.cgi/sprinklerforum-firesprinkler.org > > _______________________________________________ > Sprinklerforum mailing list > [email protected] > http://lists.firesprinkler.org/listinfo.cgi/sprinklerforum-firesprinkler.org _______________________________________________ Sprinklerforum mailing list [email protected] http://lists.firesprinkler.org/listinfo.cgi/sprinklerforum-firesprinkler.org
