Hi Roland,
I’m a little confused (no big surprise). I just went back to look at the Globe IC and it appears to be listed for 60”. Am I missing something in your post or in their listing? Thanks, Cliff Whitfield From: Sprinklerforum [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Roland Huggins Sent: Friday, October 14, 2016 11:15 AM To: [email protected] Subject: Re: Combustible Concealed Space-Area Reduction you do not go to the floor below the ceiling in determining the applicable height. Below the ceiling is treated as a totally separate portion of the system with its own design basis. The only exception to this is when your ceiling is not solid like a metal grated mezzanine floor or your using the pipe schedule and serving both areas with the same BL. As for the CC sprinklers (and other mfgs), they are actually listed for NO MORE THAN 36 inches. This can be a problem when there is a long run and a 2 in 12 slope. The 2019 ed will allow it to protect the higher area as well. Roland Roland Huggins, PE - VP Engineering American Fire Sprinkler Assn. --- Fire Sprinklers Saves Lives Dallas, TX http://www.firesprinkler.org <http://www.firesprinkler.org/> On Oct 14, 2016, at 7:44 AM, Taylor Schumacher <[email protected] <mailto:[email protected]> > wrote: Thanks for the responses. The concealed space is 4’ to 6’ in areas and is above a convention center, so if we count to the floor we exceed the 20’ max ceiling height. Wasn’t aware of the CC sprinklers allowing 60 inch spacing but draft stopping an area this big makes me cringe. We were able to respace the sprinklers and got the calculation to work. TAYLOR SCHUMACHER, CET Security Fire Sprinkler P 320.656.0847 | F 320.656.0312 | E <mailto:[email protected]> [email protected] From: Sprinklerforum [ <mailto:[email protected]> mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of John Corcoran Sent: Friday, October 14, 2016 8:56 AM To: <mailto:[email protected]> [email protected] Subject: RE: Combustible Concealed Space-Area Reduction Some input from our tech team: While NFPA 13 "requires" that specially tested and listed sprinklers be used in combustible concealed spaces 36" and less, the special listed sprinklers are not required for spaces greater than 36". Standard coverage, QR sprinklers would be allowed, and the area reduction would also be allowed ( Light Hazard space?). Globe does offer a specially listed "IC" sprinkler for spaces to depths to 60" and the possibility of utilizing CPVC pipe ( See technical data sheet for specifics of when CPVC can be utilized). The calculation area is typically 1000 sq. ft. with draft curtains being required. Kevin Maughan Globe Sprinkler Corporation Cell - 401-234-3967 Sent from my iPhone And from Karl Wiegand: While the Tyco CC 3 also has the increased 60 inch vertical protection area listing; it should be noted that the Reliable KFR CCS is listed to be used in areas that are 36 inches in height or less. John Corcoran From: Sprinklerforum [ <mailto:[email protected]> mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Cliff Whitfield Sent: Thursday, October 13, 2016 6:12 PM To: <mailto:[email protected]> [email protected] Subject: RE: Combustible Concealed Space-Area Reduction I was thinking that the standard changed to 60” but I may be mistaken or on another planet. I don’t have 2016 in front of me. I know 2013 allows using SSU once it exceeds 36”. I’m not sure how the cost compares to QR SSU but I do know that there are sprinklers listed for CCS up to 60” deep with 16 x 16 spacing on the market now. Cliff Whitfield From: Sprinklerforum [ <mailto:[email protected]> mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Travis Mack, SET Sent: Thursday, October 13, 2016 5:51 PM To: <mailto:[email protected]> [email protected] Subject: Re: Combustible Concealed Space-Area Reduction I think he is saying that his concealed space is >36" in depth. If so, then specially listed are not mandated. If so, I have always used the QR reduction for 10' ceiling height in those spaces provided it is a wet system. I have had some AHJs require I go to the floor to get my deck height. So, if you were 14' floor to floor with a 10' ceiling and 24" open web floor trusses, then you could use QR SSU to protect. A conservative approach would be to go with 14' for your QR reduction point. Travis Mack, SET MFP Design, LLC 2508 E Lodgepole Drive Gilbert, AZ 85298 480-505-9271 fax: 866-430-6107 <mailto:email:[email protected]> email:[email protected] <http://www.mfpdesign.com/> http://www.mfpdesign.com <https://www.facebook.com/pages/MFP-Design-LLC/92218417692> https://www.facebook.com/pages/MFP-Design-LLC/92218417692 Send large files to us via: <https://www.hightail.com/u/MFPDesign> https://www.hightail.com/u/MFPDesign LinkedIn: <https://www.linkedin.com/in/travismack> https://www.linkedin.com/in/travismack On 10/13/2016 2:26 PM, Cliff Whitfield wrote: Taylor, I believe you will need to use Concealed Space Sprinklers for that area and will need to calc based on the manf data sheet. Cliff Whitfield, SET President Fire Design, Inc. From: Sprinklerforum [ <mailto:[email protected]> mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Taylor Schumacher Sent: Thursday, October 13, 2016 4:55 PM To: <mailto:[email protected]> [email protected] Subject: Combustible Concealed Space-Area Reduction Good afternoon forum, I’m looking to apply the remote area reduction per 11.2.3.2.3.1 in NFPA 13 2010 to a floor truss space over 36” using quick response, standard spray sprinklers. Could anyone tell me if my assumptions are right? TAYLOR SCHUMACHER, CET Security Fire Sprinkler P 320.656.0847 | F 320.656.0312 | E <mailto:[email protected]> [email protected] _____ <https://www.avast.com/sig-email?utm_medium=email&utm_source=link&utm_campaign=sig-email&utm_content=emailclient> This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software. <https://www.avast.com/sig-email?utm_medium=email&utm_source=link&utm_campaign=sig-email&utm_content=emailclient> www.avast.com _______________________________________________ Sprinklerforum mailing list <mailto:[email protected]> [email protected] <http://lists.firesprinkler.org/listinfo.cgi/sprinklerforum-firesprinkler.org> http://lists.firesprinkler.org/listinfo.cgi/sprinklerforum-firesprinkler.org _____ <https://www.avast.com/sig-email?utm_medium=email&utm_source=link&utm_campaign=sig-email&utm_content=emailclient> This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software. <https://www.avast.com/sig-email?utm_medium=email&utm_source=link&utm_campaign=sig-email&utm_content=emailclient> www.avast.com _______________________________________________ Sprinklerforum mailing list <mailto:[email protected]> [email protected] <http://lists.firesprinkler.org/listinfo.cgi/sprinklerforum-firesprinkler.org> http://lists.firesprinkler.org/listinfo.cgi/sprinklerforum-firesprinkler.org --- This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software. https://www.avast.com/antivirus
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