the prior ones were listed to 36 inches which triggered the issue. Even if you have one that still says 36 inches, the next edition will say you can exceed it (aka supercedes the listing just like they can be used with TJI whereas they are listed just for solid wood joist).
Clear as mud?? Roland Roland Huggins, PE - VP Engineering American Fire Sprinkler Assn. --- Fire Sprinklers Saves Lives Dallas, TX http://www.firesprinkler.org <http://www.firesprinkler.org/> > On Oct 14, 2016, at 8:26 AM, Cliff Whitfield <cl...@fire-design.com> wrote: > > Hi Roland, > > I’m a little confused (no big surprise). I just went back to look at the > Globe IC and it appears to be listed for 60”. Am I missing something in your > post or in their listing? > > Thanks, > Cliff Whitfield > > From: Sprinklerforum [mailto:sprinklerforum-boun...@lists.firesprinkler.org > <mailto:sprinklerforum-boun...@lists.firesprinkler.org>] On Behalf Of Roland > Huggins > Sent: Friday, October 14, 2016 11:15 AM > To: sprinklerforum@lists.firesprinkler.org > <mailto:sprinklerforum@lists.firesprinkler.org> > Subject: Re: Combustible Concealed Space-Area Reduction > > you do not go to the floor below the ceiling in determining the applicable > height. Below the ceiling is treated as a totally separate portion of the > system with its own design basis. The only exception to this is when your > ceiling is not solid like a metal grated mezzanine floor or your using the > pipe schedule and serving both areas with the same BL. > > As for the CC sprinklers (and other mfgs), they are actually listed for NO > MORE THAN 36 inches. This can be a problem when there is a long run and a 2 > in 12 slope. The 2019 ed will allow it to protect the higher area as well. > > Roland > > Roland Huggins, PE - VP Engineering > American Fire Sprinkler Assn. --- Fire Sprinklers Saves Lives > Dallas, TX > http://www.firesprinkler.org <http://www.firesprinkler.org/> > > > >> On Oct 14, 2016, at 7:44 AM, Taylor Schumacher <tay...@sfsprinkler.com >> <mailto:tay...@sfsprinkler.com>> wrote: >> >> Thanks for the responses. The concealed space is 4’ to 6’ in areas and is >> above a convention center, so if we count to the floor we exceed the 20’ max >> ceiling height. Wasn’t aware of the CC sprinklers allowing 60 inch spacing >> but draft stopping an area this big makes me cringe. We were able to respace >> the sprinklers and got the calculation to work. >> >> TAYLOR SCHUMACHER, CET >> Security Fire Sprinkler >> P 320.656.0847 | F 320.656.0312 | E tay...@sfsprinkler.com >> <mailto:tay...@sfsprinkler.com> >> >> From: Sprinklerforum [mailto:sprinklerforum-boun...@lists.firesprinkler.org >> <mailto:sprinklerforum-boun...@lists.firesprinkler.org>] On Behalf Of John >> Corcoran >> Sent: Friday, October 14, 2016 8:56 AM >> To: sprinklerforum@lists.firesprinkler.org >> <mailto:sprinklerforum@lists.firesprinkler.org> >> Subject: RE: Combustible Concealed Space-Area Reduction >> >> Some input from our tech team: >> >> While NFPA 13 "requires" that specially tested and listed sprinklers be used >> in combustible concealed spaces 36" and less, the special listed sprinklers >> are not required for spaces greater than 36". Standard coverage, QR >> sprinklers would be allowed, and the area reduction would also be allowed ( >> Light Hazard space?). Globe does offer a specially listed "IC" sprinkler for >> spaces to depths to 60" and the possibility of utilizing CPVC pipe ( See >> technical data sheet for specifics of when CPVC can be utilized). The >> calculation area is typically 1000 sq. ft. with draft curtains being >> required. >> >> Kevin Maughan >> Globe Sprinkler Corporation >> Cell - 401-234-3967 >> Sent from my iPhone >> >> And from Karl Wiegand: >> While the Tyco CC 3 also has the increased 60 inch vertical protection area >> listing; it should be noted that the Reliable KFR CCS is listed to be used >> in areas that are 36 inches in height or less. >> >> >> >> John Corcoran >> >> From: Sprinklerforum [mailto:sprinklerforum-boun...@lists.firesprinkler.org >> <mailto:sprinklerforum-boun...@lists.firesprinkler.org>] On Behalf Of Cliff >> Whitfield >> Sent: Thursday, October 13, 2016 6:12 PM >> To: sprinklerforum@lists.firesprinkler.org >> <mailto:sprinklerforum@lists.firesprinkler.org> >> Subject: RE: Combustible Concealed Space-Area Reduction >> >> I was thinking that the standard changed to 60” but I may be mistaken or on >> another planet. I don’t have 2016 in front of me. I know 2013 allows using >> SSU once it exceeds 36”. >> >> I’m not sure how the cost compares to QR SSU but I do know that there are >> sprinklers listed for CCS up to 60” deep with 16 x 16 spacing on the market >> now. >> >> Cliff Whitfield >> >> From: Sprinklerforum [mailto:sprinklerforum-boun...@lists.firesprinkler.org >> <mailto:sprinklerforum-boun...@lists.firesprinkler.org>] On Behalf Of Travis >> Mack, SET >> Sent: Thursday, October 13, 2016 5:51 PM >> To: sprinklerforum@lists.firesprinkler.org >> <mailto:sprinklerforum@lists.firesprinkler.org> >> Subject: Re: Combustible Concealed Space-Area Reduction >> >> I think he is saying that his concealed space is >36" in depth. If so, then >> specially listed are not mandated. >> If so, I have always used the QR reduction for 10' ceiling height in those >> spaces provided it is a wet system. I have had some AHJs require I go to >> the floor to get my deck height. So, if you were 14' floor to floor with a >> 10' ceiling and 24" open web floor trusses, then you could use QR SSU to >> protect. A conservative approach would be to go with 14' for your QR >> reduction point. >> Travis Mack, SET >> MFP Design, LLC >> 2508 E Lodgepole Drive >> Gilbert, AZ 85298 >> 480-505-9271 >> fax: 866-430-6107 >> email:tm...@mfpdesign.com <mailto:email:tm...@mfpdesign.com> >> >> http://www.mfpdesign.com <http://www.mfpdesign.com/> >> https://www.facebook.com/pages/MFP-Design-LLC/92218417692 >> <https://www.facebook.com/pages/MFP-Design-LLC/92218417692> >> Send large files to us via: https://www.hightail.com/u/MFPDesign >> <https://www.hightail.com/u/MFPDesign> >> LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/travismack >> <https://www.linkedin.com/in/travismack> >> On 10/13/2016 2:26 PM, Cliff Whitfield wrote: >>> Taylor, >>> >>> I believe you will need to use Concealed Space Sprinklers for that area and >>> will need to calc based on the manf data sheet. >>> >>> Cliff Whitfield, SET >>> President >>> Fire Design, Inc. >>> >>> >>> From: Sprinklerforum [mailto:sprinklerforum-boun...@lists.firesprinkler.org >>> <mailto:sprinklerforum-boun...@lists.firesprinkler.org>] On Behalf Of >>> Taylor Schumacher >>> Sent: Thursday, October 13, 2016 4:55 PM >>> To: sprinklerforum@lists.firesprinkler.org >>> <mailto:sprinklerforum@lists.firesprinkler.org> >>> Subject: Combustible Concealed Space-Area Reduction >>> >>> Good afternoon forum, >>> >>> I’m looking to apply the remote area reduction per 11.2.3.2.3.1 in NFPA 13 >>> 2010 to a floor truss space over 36” using quick response, standard spray >>> sprinklers. >>> >>> Could anyone tell me if my assumptions are right? >>> >>> TAYLOR SCHUMACHER, CET >>> Security Fire Sprinkler >>> P 320.656.0847 | F 320.656.0312 | E tay...@sfsprinkler.com >>> <mailto:tay...@sfsprinkler.com> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> <https://www.avast.com/sig-email?utm_medium=email&utm_source=link&utm_campaign=sig-email&utm_content=emailclient> >>> >>> This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software. >>> www.avast.com >>> <https://www.avast.com/sig-email?utm_medium=email&utm_source=link&utm_campaign=sig-email&utm_content=emailclient> >>> >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Sprinklerforum mailing list >>> Sprinklerforum@lists.firesprinkler.org >>> <mailto:Sprinklerforum@lists.firesprinkler.org> >>> http://lists.firesprinkler.org/listinfo.cgi/sprinklerforum-firesprinkler.org >>> >>> <http://lists.firesprinkler.org/listinfo.cgi/sprinklerforum-firesprinkler.org> >>> >> >> >> >> <https://www.avast.com/sig-email?utm_medium=email&utm_source=link&utm_campaign=sig-email&utm_content=emailclient> >> >> This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software. >> www.avast.com >> <https://www.avast.com/sig-email?utm_medium=email&utm_source=link&utm_campaign=sig-email&utm_content=emailclient> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Sprinklerforum mailing list >> Sprinklerforum@lists.firesprinkler.org >> <mailto:Sprinklerforum@lists.firesprinkler.org> >> http://lists.firesprinkler.org/listinfo.cgi/sprinklerforum-firesprinkler.org >> <http://lists.firesprinkler.org/listinfo.cgi/sprinklerforum-firesprinkler.org> > > > > > <https://www.avast.com/sig-email?utm_medium=email&utm_source=link&utm_campaign=sig-email&utm_content=emailclient> > > This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software. > www.avast.com > <https://www.avast.com/sig-email?utm_medium=email&utm_source=link&utm_campaign=sig-email&utm_content=emailclient> > _______________________________________________ > Sprinklerforum mailing list > Sprinklerforum@lists.firesprinkler.org > <mailto:Sprinklerforum@lists.firesprinkler.org> > http://lists.firesprinkler.org/listinfo.cgi/sprinklerforum-firesprinkler.org > <http://lists.firesprinkler.org/listinfo.cgi/sprinklerforum-firesprinkler.org>
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