John,
Open top HDPE Plastic Bin boxes is a configuration of storage not
covered by NFPA 13 since the open top bin boxes stops the sprinkler
water discharge form delivering the required delivered density.
Additionally NFPA 13 2016 edition;
1. Paragraph 16.1.7 states 16.1.7 Open-Top Containers. The
protection of open-top containers shall be considered outside the scope
of Chapter 16. See Section C.12. And
2. Paragraph 16.2.3.3 ESFR sprinklers shall not be permitted to
protect
storage with open top containers.
3. Paragraph 16.3.3.2 ESFR protection as defined shall not apply to
the following:
(1) Rack storage involving solid shelves, except for situations
complying with 16.3.3.2.1
(2) Rack storage involving open-top cartons or containers.
4. 17.1.6 Open-Top Containers. The protection of open-top containers
is outside the scope of Chapter 17. (See SectionC.12.)
5. Paragraph 17.2.3.1.1 ESFR protection as defined shall not apply to
the following:
(1) Rack storage involving solid shelves, except as permitted by
17.2.3.1.2
(2) Rack storage involving open-top cartons or containers
6. Paragraph 17.3.3.1.2 ESFR sprinklers shall not be permitted to
protect storage with open-top containers.
The following is Appendix "A" explanation A.3.9.1.19 Open-Top
Container. Open-top containers can prevent water from running across the
top to storage and
down the flues and can also collect water. The container will prevent
water penetration to a fire in lower levels where it is needed. Rack or
flue collapse can also occur if too much water is collected.
Consideration should be given to the potential degree of water
collection possible within the container when applying the definition of
an open-top container. The following conditions should be considered:
(1) Small openings at the top of containers containing such items as
fresh produce are quite common and should not be considered as an
open-top container.
(2) Arrangements that include open-top containers that are all located
on the bottom tier of rack storage do not prevent penetration of water
and should not be considered an open-top container.
(3) Containers having either wire mesh siding or large uniform openings
along the bottom perimeter of each container, such that water enters the
container at the same flow rate and discharge evenly into the flue
spaces should not be considered as an open-top container provided the
contents of the container are not water absorbent and are not capable of
blocking such container openings.
The protection of this type of storage is clearly not under the
"practice" of a NICET tech following the prescribed protection
guidelines of a published NFPA standard (White Paper developed by SFPE,
NICET and NSPE) especially since the standard states many times that
open-top containers are not covered by the standard. The specifying
engineer might be "outside" his/her "area of competence" as defined by
the Professional Engineering Laws and Code of Ethics formulated by the
state or commonwealth they are "practicing" in.
Just my two cents and interpretation by a NICET Tech when NFPA 13
specifically states that the protection of open top containers are
outside the scope of specific NFPA 13 chapters could be considered the
practice of engineering and subject their company to an E & O exposure
not covered by the company's insurance policy.
Why expose yourself and your company to such an exposure.
Have a fire safe day!
Regards
Jim
Davidson Associates
Fire Protection Engineering
P. O. Box 4002
Code Consultants
Greenville, DE 19807
(302) 994-9500
Fax (302) 994-3414
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From: Sprinklerforum
[mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of
John Paulsen
Sent: Thursday, December 08, 2016 11:31 AM
To: [email protected]
Subject: RE: HDPE Plastic Bin Box Storage
Jeff:
I appreciate your "caution" on this and perhaps I am overreaching here.
But in my view, I'm just trying to correctly interpret the commodity
classification and arrangement as it relates to the storage provisions
of NFPA-13, which should fall under my practice. In fact, I am working
with a specifying engineer on this who is just as baffled by the
insurance underwriter's concerns as I am. The problem is, this
arrangement is not "specifically" addressed in 13. Is this bin box
storage, (it's not cardboard or corrugated) or open container storage?
>From everything that I can tell, if it meet the OHII curve, that should
be the governing requirement.
Thanks,
John Paulsen - SET
Crown Fire System Design
6282 Seeds Rd.
Grove City, OH 43123
P - 614-782-2438
F - 614-782-2374
C - 614-348-8206
From: Sprinklerforum [
mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Jeff
Hewitt
Sent: Thursday, December 8, 2016 11:03 AM
To: [email protected]
Subject: RE: HDPE Plastic Bin Box Storage
John,
I'm writing off on the forum because I don't want to stir up a hornets
nest.
Isn't this an engineering decision, not a NICET SET decision?
I'm just saying, why would you want to take that liability as a NICET
SET, and also potentially violate your NICET Certification by practicing
engineering.
Jeff Hewitt, PE, SET, PM.SFPE
Corporate Engineer
American Fire Protection, Inc.
5525 Eastcliff Industrial Loop | Birmingham, AL 35210
205-591-9111 ext. 1452 | 205-317-0918 (cell)
205-591-9990 (Fax)
Licensed in AL, AR, FL, GA, IL, KY, MS, MO, NC, SC, TN, TX
Fire sprinklers save lives. Can you live without them?
Please note that any positions expressed above are my professional
opinion only, as a member of the NFPA 13 Technical Committee, and do not
represent an official interpretation of the NFPA 13 standard.
From: Sprinklerforum [
mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of John
Paulsen
Sent: Thursday, December 08, 2016 9:43 AM
To: [email protected]
Subject: HDPE Plastic Bin Box Storage
Hello All!
I am working with a truck parts supplier who has moved into an existing
warehouse and I am providing a design study to them on the existing
system.
Pertinent Facts:
6"x6"x2" Grid with K-8.0 Upright Heads fed by a pump. Pipe is at 25'
AFF.
Metal truck parts storage in HDPE Plastic Bin Boxes stored no higher
than 10'
Existing system with 500 GPM hose calcs to .60 GPM / 3,000.
Tokyo Mutual Insurance
Personally I think the system provides adequate protection for the
storage configuration. In fact it is MORE than sufficient according to
NFPA 13, Ch 14. However the insurance company is maintaining that the
plastic bin storage boxes represent an additional hazard. This is a new
experience for me. My contention is that the Bin Boxes, even though they
are made of HDPE Plastic, do not represent an increase to the commodity
classification because of their higher flash point. (which is
information I can't seem to find right now)
Is there a fire test out there that indicates these bin boxes represent
an increased hazard?
John Paulsen - SET
Crown Fire System Design
6282 Seeds Rd.
Grove City, OH 43123
P - 614-782-2438
F - 614-782-2374
C - 614-348-8206
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