I have to agree with Ben here. If 8.15.1.2.5 was intended to include composite wood joists, then there is no reason to have the more restrictive 8.15.1.2.6, which applies specifically to composite wood joists.
-Kyle M From: Sprinklerforum [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Ben Young Sent: Wednesday, March 28, 2018 9:35 AM To: [email protected] Subject: [EXTERNAL] Re: concealed space less than 6" deep Travis, you're right on the CC spec app heads, for some crazy reason I was thinking 36" was the min not the max! 8.15.1.2.5 makes sense, but I look at 8.15.1.2.6 and it makes me think there's a reason they didn't include 'composite wood joist' in 1.2.5. Look at 1.2.8 and 1.2.13 where they use both terms. Basically I don't feel like 'wood joist' is a catchall term for section 8.15.1 But yeah, I would love to be proven wrong on this! Benjamin Young On Wed, Mar 28, 2018 at 12:19 PM, MFP Design, LLC <[email protected]<mailto:[email protected]>> wrote: I think 8.15.1.2.5 is going to be your best bet. The issue is that in many other places of the standard, composite wood joist are specifically handled differently than wood joist and are not considered “similar solid member construction.” As far as the specially listed sprinklers, I think you would have to use them with 8.15.1.6. This says less than 36”, which I take as from zero to 36” in depth. The specially listed sprinklers have a requirement of 6” minimum clear space. This gets you back to there is no sprinkler that is available to protect this space. I would lean back to 8.15.1.2.5 and keep sprinklers out of the space. But, you will need to increase the design area to 3000 sq ft for adjacent spaces. [MFP_logo_F] Travis Mack, SET MFP Design, LLC 3356 E Vallejo Ct Gilbert, AZ 85298 480-505-9271<tel:(480)%20505-9271> fax: 866-430-6107<tel:(866)%20430-6107> email:[email protected]<mailto:email:[email protected]> http://www.mfpdesign.com<https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com_-3Furl-3Dhttp-253A-252F-252Fwww.mfpdesign.com-252F-26data-3D02-257C01-257C-257C1121d49f9e6b4cf248f108d4df580e77-257C14e5497c16da42e69ffa77d19bafe511-257C0-257C0-257C636379016677342180-26sdata-3DHJ8OA4xyeHAoxXNz5mu-252FYfycgtd5nsFrrpvzulZiNkQ-253D-26reserved-3D0&d=DwMFaQ&c=wn3mZQLIuInh2ClcJ0_DIA&r=Z_2A85VL7AQzoqudh6uOyS3bn8etxB7nLN8OBJwQd9A&m=GrULeWpdM7cpEkXHtsdVqtVtmQdWfkM3zplzAhtyLwY&s=I58ROUQUvra_J2RL_MK4g8SJGz2cGCUV68H4nrePJkY&e=> https://www.facebook.com/pages/MFP-Design-LLC/92218417692<https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com_-3Furl-3Dhttps-253A-252F-252Fwww.facebook.com-252Fpages-252FMFP-2DDesign-2DLLC-252F92218417692-26data-3D02-257C01-257C-257C1121d49f9e6b4cf248f108d4df580e77-257C14e5497c16da42e69ffa77d19bafe511-257C0-257C0-257C636379016677342180-26sdata-3DH-252BwdcgK8DLGBcNoqJEvUrzsXngySwkX56Vgf9gM9EGk-253D-26reserved-3D0&d=DwMFaQ&c=wn3mZQLIuInh2ClcJ0_DIA&r=Z_2A85VL7AQzoqudh6uOyS3bn8etxB7nLN8OBJwQd9A&m=GrULeWpdM7cpEkXHtsdVqtVtmQdWfkM3zplzAhtyLwY&s=hHv2c-a1y5MMMat0i_bJdSt8oHEVMX_tSF1WEoSG76I&e=> Send large files to us via: https://www.hightail.com/u/MFPDesign<https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com_-3Furl-3Dhttps-253A-252F-252Fwww.hightail.com-252Fu-252FMFPDesign-26data-3D02-257C01-257C-257C1121d49f9e6b4cf248f108d4df580e77-257C14e5497c16da42e69ffa77d19bafe511-257C0-257C0-257C636379016677342180-26sdata-3DeGdMZGu2wXhUupGwgGTrqF3b54OP5-252BAZvlHhABSexWY-253D-26reserved-3D0&d=DwMFaQ&c=wn3mZQLIuInh2ClcJ0_DIA&r=Z_2A85VL7AQzoqudh6uOyS3bn8etxB7nLN8OBJwQd9A&m=GrULeWpdM7cpEkXHtsdVqtVtmQdWfkM3zplzAhtyLwY&s=VygTWx3S0fPn-zz_C3Uo97WysEuiUS1aWCevUR4p5gg&e=> LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/travismack<https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com_-3Furl-3Dhttps-253A-252F-252Fwww.linkedin.com-252Fin-252Ftravismack-26data-3D02-257C01-257C-257C1121d49f9e6b4cf248f108d4df580e77-257C14e5497c16da42e69ffa77d19bafe511-257C0-257C0-257C636379016677342180-26sdata-3DtT5E7LsZjSmyreKi4gDCa70EWN-252BZodi-252FhbeCbHNRijI-253D-26reserved-3D0&d=DwMFaQ&c=wn3mZQLIuInh2ClcJ0_DIA&r=Z_2A85VL7AQzoqudh6uOyS3bn8etxB7nLN8OBJwQd9A&m=GrULeWpdM7cpEkXHtsdVqtVtmQdWfkM3zplzAhtyLwY&s=OtLk7cYJ5T8MNPZqV6QHKJRiSLYyLs5vweuzg__1_CE&e=> “The bitterness of poor quality remains long after the sweetness of low price is forgotten.” From: Sprinklerforum <[email protected]<mailto:[email protected]>> On Behalf Of Mike Hairfield Sent: Wednesday, March 28, 2018 9:13 AM To: [email protected]<mailto:[email protected]> Subject: Re: concealed space less than 6" deep I was at a AFSA NFPA 13 2013 ed seminar that was given by the AFA Virginia Chapter that the Great Bob Caputo was the instructor and this came up. If I remember correctly he stated that sprinklers are not required, but maybe it was during one of the times that doze off. Mike ________________________________ From: Sprinklerforum <[email protected]<mailto:[email protected]>> on behalf of Ben Young <[email protected]<mailto:[email protected]>> Sent: Wednesday, March 28, 2018 12:06 PM To: [email protected]<mailto:[email protected]> Subject: concealed space less than 6" deep I feel like this has come up here before, but nothing came back when I did searches through the archives. I've got a concealed space that needs sprinklers, but I don't know how I'm going to put them in. (Light hazard office space under 2013 ED of 13) Wood TJI construction with an ACT suspended ceiling below it. From top of joist to face of ceiling is only 16.5" deep TJIs are 12" deep How the heck do I protect this space with only a 4.5" gap that will be even smaller with the grid? Owner refuses to fill space with insulation inside trusses (for the time being) CC spec app heads not required since the space is so small anyway, but I think that also means I can't use CPVC, which would make hanging the pipe parallel to the trusses a lot easier. Its obstructed construction, so I should be able to put pendent heads below the bottom edge of the TJIs, but it will be no more than 2-3 inches above the ceiling. I don't even know if that will work so worst case is I need heads inside every truss space, right? The salesperson is telling me to use some weird combination of 8.15.1.2.3 (which I believe only applied to double trusses ) and 8.15.1.2.5 (which only applies to solid member construction and then you have 8.15.1.2.6 directly below it calling out TJIs) This definitely feels like a catch-22. Thanks, Benjamin Young _______________________________________________ Sprinklerforum mailing list [email protected]<mailto:[email protected]> http://lists.firesprinkler.org/listinfo.cgi/sprinklerforum-firesprinkler.org<https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__lists.firesprinkler.org_listinfo.cgi_sprinklerforum-2Dfiresprinkler.org&d=DwMFaQ&c=wn3mZQLIuInh2ClcJ0_DIA&r=Z_2A85VL7AQzoqudh6uOyS3bn8etxB7nLN8OBJwQd9A&m=GrULeWpdM7cpEkXHtsdVqtVtmQdWfkM3zplzAhtyLwY&s=GhQO8jVHeo5qxQVa4DEy7SVYxXvUsk1Ie9TywiYiUBI&e=>
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