OK, this is getting confusing. What are the size of the openings in this “trellis”, “mesh material”, “canopy”? What is it made of?
Is there anything of any combustible nature in the construction material associated with or connected to this feature? Is there anything of any combustible nature below this feature? How far out from the building wall does this feature project? Craig Prahl | Jacobs | Group Lead – Fire Protection | 864.676.5252 | [email protected] | www.jacobs.com<http://www.jacobs.com/> From: Sprinklerforum [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Travis Mack Sent: Tuesday, June 26, 2018 9:23 AM To: [email protected] Subject: Re: [EXTERNAL] RE: % open The canopy itself that is spread over the steel members is what the architect is keying on to push the sprinkler requirement. And this canopy is a mesh material that may or may not be able to trap heat to activate sprinklers. Travis Mack, SET MFP Design, LLC "Follow" us on Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/pages/MFP-Design-LLC/92218417692<https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__www.facebook.com_pages_MFP-2DDesign-2DLLC_92218417692&d=DwMFaQ&c=OgZOSER8c1RLeytEexU279Q2qk0jVwkrOdYe5iSi-kk&r=6qYbbLx8x0UrMujmEGNoh-2hzoFD2d1EB5d2sQF0_OI&m=EpLUAOR23O-8xVojIlUTgQxQLXZuulkZ__R8b-34160&s=n7SXwCBRDZ9UU-m5757mOf3_GrqPFt5_i4LjxPZahKw&e=> Send large files to MFP Design via: https://www.hightail.com/u/MFPDesign<https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__www.hightail.com_u_MFPDesign&d=DwMFaQ&c=OgZOSER8c1RLeytEexU279Q2qk0jVwkrOdYe5iSi-kk&r=6qYbbLx8x0UrMujmEGNoh-2hzoFD2d1EB5d2sQF0_OI&m=EpLUAOR23O-8xVojIlUTgQxQLXZuulkZ__R8b-34160&s=K0gvUuMMKDClrXq8g0eSvguuW1CSjlfR33oOpm4FFV4&e=> Sent from my iPhone On Jun 26, 2018, at 5:00 AM, Prahl, Craig/GVL <[email protected]<mailto:[email protected]>> wrote: If it’s all steel, I’d ignore it and be done. Craig Prahl | Jacobs | Group Lead – Fire Protection | 864.676.5252 | [email protected]<mailto:[email protected]> | www.jacobs.com<http://www.jacobs.com/> From: Sprinklerforum [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of MFP Design, LLC Sent: Monday, June 25, 2018 6:23 PM To: [email protected]<mailto:[email protected]> Subject: RE: [EXTERNAL] RE: % open This is all steel construction. The exterior projection overhang is steel construction and the new add on to the clubhouse that this projects from is also steel construction. <image002.jpg> Travis Mack, SET MFP Design, LLC 3356 E Vallejo Ct Gilbert, AZ 85298 480-505-9271 fax: 866-430-6107 email:[email protected]<mailto:email:[email protected]> http://www.mfpdesign.com<https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com_-3Furl-3Dhttp-253A-252F-252Fwww.mfpdesign.com-252F-26data-3D02-257C01-257C-257C1121d49f9e6b4cf248f108d4df580e77-257C14e5497c16da42e69ffa77d19bafe511-257C0-257C0-257C636379016677342180-26sdata-3DHJ8OA4xyeHAoxXNz5mu-252FYfycgtd5nsFrrpvzulZiNkQ-253D-26reserved-3D0&d=DwMFaQ&c=OgZOSER8c1RLeytEexU279Q2qk0jVwkrOdYe5iSi-kk&r=6qYbbLx8x0UrMujmEGNoh-2hzoFD2d1EB5d2sQF0_OI&m=ldfn84awZfQoxMvvMFaimdThYgKV-8RmhSM65xJt1_E&s=FOTh7hOD67zLikk923LsMOXXPlaPndmGPdsUU8f4AhY&e=> https://www.facebook.com/pages/MFP-Design-LLC/92218417692<https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com_-3Furl-3Dhttps-253A-252F-252Fwww.facebook.com-252Fpages-252FMFP-2DDesign-2DLLC-252F92218417692-26data-3D02-257C01-257C-257C1121d49f9e6b4cf248f108d4df580e77-257C14e5497c16da42e69ffa77d19bafe511-257C0-257C0-257C636379016677342180-26sdata-3DH-252BwdcgK8DLGBcNoqJEvUrzsXngySwkX56Vgf9gM9EGk-253D-26reserved-3D0&d=DwMFaQ&c=OgZOSER8c1RLeytEexU279Q2qk0jVwkrOdYe5iSi-kk&r=6qYbbLx8x0UrMujmEGNoh-2hzoFD2d1EB5d2sQF0_OI&m=ldfn84awZfQoxMvvMFaimdThYgKV-8RmhSM65xJt1_E&s=TzSX1Af7vISLVxI0BjXHqU7Ay7kvi4nVwAO6bNnE-1c&e=> Send large files to us via: https://www.hightail.com/u/MFPDesign<https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com_-3Furl-3Dhttps-253A-252F-252Fwww.hightail.com-252Fu-252FMFPDesign-26data-3D02-257C01-257C-257C1121d49f9e6b4cf248f108d4df580e77-257C14e5497c16da42e69ffa77d19bafe511-257C0-257C0-257C636379016677342180-26sdata-3DeGdMZGu2wXhUupGwgGTrqF3b54OP5-252BAZvlHhABSexWY-253D-26reserved-3D0&d=DwMFaQ&c=OgZOSER8c1RLeytEexU279Q2qk0jVwkrOdYe5iSi-kk&r=6qYbbLx8x0UrMujmEGNoh-2hzoFD2d1EB5d2sQF0_OI&m=ldfn84awZfQoxMvvMFaimdThYgKV-8RmhSM65xJt1_E&s=ZDOo6cmJVLe_atiUd-LYe8tZ-ZWHFRCctj846ijv5IM&e=> LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/travismack<https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com_-3Furl-3Dhttps-253A-252F-252Fwww.linkedin.com-252Fin-252Ftravismack-26data-3D02-257C01-257C-257C1121d49f9e6b4cf248f108d4df580e77-257C14e5497c16da42e69ffa77d19bafe511-257C0-257C0-257C636379016677342180-26sdata-3DtT5E7LsZjSmyreKi4gDCa70EWN-252BZodi-252FhbeCbHNRijI-253D-26reserved-3D0&d=DwMFaQ&c=OgZOSER8c1RLeytEexU279Q2qk0jVwkrOdYe5iSi-kk&r=6qYbbLx8x0UrMujmEGNoh-2hzoFD2d1EB5d2sQF0_OI&m=ldfn84awZfQoxMvvMFaimdThYgKV-8RmhSM65xJt1_E&s=DA8Ajs9xwmurMaIkA-byPmDB_QhNHaNocHUXT3zL03Y&e=> “The bitterness of poor quality remains long after the sweetness of low price is forgotten.” From: Sprinklerforum <[email protected]<mailto:[email protected]>> On Behalf Of AKS-Gmail-IMAP Sent: Monday, June 25, 2018 2:39 PM To: [email protected]<mailto:[email protected]> Subject: Re: [EXTERNAL] RE: % open This sounds like the “Architect has an archictectural feature right up against the building problem.” Each case differs in some way of course. The wood pergola, once you see how they plan to build it, can be otherwise, accurately described as “wood pallets on sticks”. Often they want to put it next to the main building structure starting from underneath the roof overhang. That is problematic when the main structure is wood. It probably will have electrical lighting circuits. Since there has to be some compromise to mitigate conditions, perhaps something in all the involved disciplines (like starting the feature out from under the roof because after all it probably cannot be cantelivered and supporting one end on the main structure is asking for structural problems down the line), you might be able sidewall the situation with the idea the main structure is what get protected. Maybe that will fly. Allan Seidel St. Louis, MO On Jun 25, 2018, at 10:51 AM, Wayne Cordiner <[email protected]<mailto:[email protected]>> wrote: Could you apply 8.15.7.4 to omit? This doesn’t take into account the “trellis” type ceiling but being the trellis will not have walls and no occupancy above (A.8.15.7.2) I would think you can omit coverage. A bit of a stretch as far as backing it up with code though, I know. Regards, Wayne T. Cordiner, Jr. 917-426-5844 [email protected]<mailto:[email protected]> On Jun 25, 2018, at 10:35, Travis Mack <[email protected]<mailto:[email protected]>> wrote: It’s a golf clubhouse with a radius projection. There are limited spots to hang if we have to protect this space. It’s just a big cluster bomb. Travis Mack, SET MFP Design, LLC "Follow" us on Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/pages/MFP-Design-LLC/92218417692<https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__www.facebook.com_pages_MFP-2DDesign-2DLLC_92218417692&d=DwMFaQ&c=OgZOSER8c1RLeytEexU279Q2qk0jVwkrOdYe5iSi-kk&r=6qYbbLx8x0UrMujmEGNoh-2hzoFD2d1EB5d2sQF0_OI&m=ldfn84awZfQoxMvvMFaimdThYgKV-8RmhSM65xJt1_E&s=M7URlblUaLy2p2Cgrku0kVRutRmDCtXSE2tT0QPd6Y8&e=> Send large files to MFP Design via: https://www.hightail.com/u/MFPDesign<https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__www.hightail.com_u_MFPDesign&d=DwMFaQ&c=OgZOSER8c1RLeytEexU279Q2qk0jVwkrOdYe5iSi-kk&r=6qYbbLx8x0UrMujmEGNoh-2hzoFD2d1EB5d2sQF0_OI&m=ldfn84awZfQoxMvvMFaimdThYgKV-8RmhSM65xJt1_E&s=dWDdPsdpT1p-pakOnYfQtS7uM2lsaYaRsm3WKMim-aI&e=> Sent from my iPhone On Jun 25, 2018, at 8:24 AM, Prahl, Craig/GVL <[email protected]<mailto:[email protected]>> wrote: 8.15.14 doesn’t apply to this application. That section is for grated “ceilings” installed below sprinklers. Trellis construction being open is similar to a pergola where there is no ceiling/roof. Being open, you can’t trap heat or smoke as long as they don’t plan to let plants grow on the trellis work to create a “green roof/ceiling”. Is this for public seating? If it is, there may be local requirements for overhead materials if they are combustible. Craig Prahl | Jacobs | Group Lead – Fire Protection | 864.676.5252 | [email protected]<mailto:[email protected]> | www.jacobs.com<http://www.jacobs.com/> From: Sprinklerforum [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Kyle.Montgomery Sent: Monday, June 25, 2018 11:02 AM To: [email protected]<mailto:[email protected]> Subject: RE: [EXTERNAL] RE: % open Then I don’t think the section sited below is the correct application. I’m honestly not sure where that is quantified. We usually are successful making the argument that it won’t trap heat, but I can’t think of where that’s actually spelled out in the code. I’m interested in the responses to this one. Would it not otherwise meet the criteria for omitting sprinklers under an exterior projection? -Kyle M From: Sprinklerforum [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of MFP Design, LLC Sent: Monday, June 25, 2018 7:52 AM To: [email protected]<mailto:[email protected]> Subject: [EXTERNAL] RE: % open Yes. That is exactly it. <image001.jpg> Travis Mack, SET MFP Design, LLC 3356 E Vallejo Ct Gilbert, AZ 85298 480-505-9271 fax: 866-430-6107 email:[email protected]<mailto:email:[email protected]> http://www.mfpdesign.com<https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com_-3Furl-3Dhttp-253A-252F-252Fwww.mfpdesign.com-252F-26data-3D02-257C01-257C-257C1121d49f9e6b4cf248f108d4df580e77-257C14e5497c16da42e69ffa77d19bafe511-257C0-257C0-257C636379016677342180-26sdata-3DHJ8OA4xyeHAoxXNz5mu-252FYfycgtd5nsFrrpvzulZiNkQ-253D-26reserved-3D0&d=DwMFAg&c=wn3mZQLIuInh2ClcJ0_DIA&r=Z_2A85VL7AQzoqudh6uOyS3bn8etxB7nLN8OBJwQd9A&m=--4Q7Dz9BATd8WUxsQYTT9-zwN6lA-WWPx1vQGUNOSs&s=wAYQUJqAnaCqfrR5MlqvBUPsIFuAxuv94pP0PHJuAKI&e=> https://www.facebook.com/pages/MFP-Design-LLC/92218417692<https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com_-3Furl-3Dhttps-253A-252F-252Fwww.facebook.com-252Fpages-252FMFP-2DDesign-2DLLC-252F92218417692-26data-3D02-257C01-257C-257C1121d49f9e6b4cf248f108d4df580e77-257C14e5497c16da42e69ffa77d19bafe511-257C0-257C0-257C636379016677342180-26sdata-3DH-252BwdcgK8DLGBcNoqJEvUrzsXngySwkX56Vgf9gM9EGk-253D-26reserved-3D0&d=DwMFAg&c=wn3mZQLIuInh2ClcJ0_DIA&r=Z_2A85VL7AQzoqudh6uOyS3bn8etxB7nLN8OBJwQd9A&m=--4Q7Dz9BATd8WUxsQYTT9-zwN6lA-WWPx1vQGUNOSs&s=uC-yrDZQYbzRw_0mpbCvvFdYDJvJKkYJD36M5tJ9XZE&e=> Send large files to us via: https://www.hightail.com/u/MFPDesign<https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com_-3Furl-3Dhttps-253A-252F-252Fwww.hightail.com-252Fu-252FMFPDesign-26data-3D02-257C01-257C-257C1121d49f9e6b4cf248f108d4df580e77-257C14e5497c16da42e69ffa77d19bafe511-257C0-257C0-257C636379016677342180-26sdata-3DeGdMZGu2wXhUupGwgGTrqF3b54OP5-252BAZvlHhABSexWY-253D-26reserved-3D0&d=DwMFAg&c=wn3mZQLIuInh2ClcJ0_DIA&r=Z_2A85VL7AQzoqudh6uOyS3bn8etxB7nLN8OBJwQd9A&m=--4Q7Dz9BATd8WUxsQYTT9-zwN6lA-WWPx1vQGUNOSs&s=VANcNpjh21wGFjVtIZXIcXG1IhFERc30VWUn2SWIF8s&e=> LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/travismack<https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com_-3Furl-3Dhttps-253A-252F-252Fwww.linkedin.com-252Fin-252Ftravismack-26data-3D02-257C01-257C-257C1121d49f9e6b4cf248f108d4df580e77-257C14e5497c16da42e69ffa77d19bafe511-257C0-257C0-257C636379016677342180-26sdata-3DtT5E7LsZjSmyreKi4gDCa70EWN-252BZodi-252FhbeCbHNRijI-253D-26reserved-3D0&d=DwMFAg&c=wn3mZQLIuInh2ClcJ0_DIA&r=Z_2A85VL7AQzoqudh6uOyS3bn8etxB7nLN8OBJwQd9A&m=--4Q7Dz9BATd8WUxsQYTT9-zwN6lA-WWPx1vQGUNOSs&s=AknKYnYQfWiaEOx4mPnCJS8nwuz8Wgcrkzmw7V0Oew0&e=> “The bitterness of poor quality remains long after the sweetness of low price is forgotten.” From: Sprinklerforum <[email protected]<mailto:[email protected]>> On Behalf Of Kyle.Montgomery Sent: Monday, June 25, 2018 7:52 AM To: [email protected]<mailto:[email protected]> Subject: RE: % open Travis, Are you talking about an exterior trellis? Something that would not have sprinklers above, just open to the sky above? -Kyle M From: Sprinklerforum [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of John Paulsen Sent: Monday, June 25, 2018 7:48 AM To: [email protected]<mailto:[email protected]> Subject: [EXTERNAL] RE: % open 8.15.14.1 (2013) John Paulsen – SET Crown Fire System Design 6282 Seeds Rd. Grove City, OH 43123 P – 614-782-2438 F – 614-782-2374 C – 614-348-8206 From: Sprinklerforum [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of MFP Design, LLC Sent: Monday, June 25, 2018 10:44 AM To: [email protected]<mailto:[email protected]> Subject: % open I have a project where the architect is asking what is the % opening required in a trellis type structure so that sprinklers are not required. 70% open is coming to mind, but I can’t find a section referencing anything like that. Can anyone help point me in the right direction? <image002.jpg> Travis Mack, SET MFP Design, LLC 3356 E Vallejo Ct Gilbert, AZ 85298 480-505-9271 fax: 866-430-6107 email:[email protected]<mailto:email:[email protected]> http://www.mfpdesign.com<https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com_-3Furl-3Dhttp-253A-252F-252Fwww.mfpdesign.com-252F-26data-3D02-257C01-257C-257C1121d49f9e6b4cf248f108d4df580e77-257C14e5497c16da42e69ffa77d19bafe511-257C0-257C0-257C636379016677342180-26sdata-3DHJ8OA4xyeHAoxXNz5mu-252FYfycgtd5nsFrrpvzulZiNkQ-253D-26reserved-3D0&d=DwMFAg&c=wn3mZQLIuInh2ClcJ0_DIA&r=Z_2A85VL7AQzoqudh6uOyS3bn8etxB7nLN8OBJwQd9A&m=XXSFsdp3C6lw_EoQ52zofB317Ch5AodVrALwfCjiGik&s=UDadvmExbxR_qUp3fko6fjEGJjwHxPSOhhQhvMgFwPg&e=> https://www.facebook.com/pages/MFP-Design-LLC/92218417692<https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com_-3Furl-3Dhttps-253A-252F-252Fwww.facebook.com-252Fpages-252FMFP-2DDesign-2DLLC-252F92218417692-26data-3D02-257C01-257C-257C1121d49f9e6b4cf248f108d4df580e77-257C14e5497c16da42e69ffa77d19bafe511-257C0-257C0-257C636379016677342180-26sdata-3DH-252BwdcgK8DLGBcNoqJEvUrzsXngySwkX56Vgf9gM9EGk-253D-26reserved-3D0&d=DwMFAg&c=wn3mZQLIuInh2ClcJ0_DIA&r=Z_2A85VL7AQzoqudh6uOyS3bn8etxB7nLN8OBJwQd9A&m=XXSFsdp3C6lw_EoQ52zofB317Ch5AodVrALwfCjiGik&s=2cL17WmNxprzrKunHO7EaTVV46hC_zGM3rCXzOuh3F4&e=> Send large files to us via: https://www.hightail.com/u/MFPDesign<https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com_-3Furl-3Dhttps-253A-252F-252Fwww.hightail.com-252Fu-252FMFPDesign-26data-3D02-257C01-257C-257C1121d49f9e6b4cf248f108d4df580e77-257C14e5497c16da42e69ffa77d19bafe511-257C0-257C0-257C636379016677342180-26sdata-3DeGdMZGu2wXhUupGwgGTrqF3b54OP5-252BAZvlHhABSexWY-253D-26reserved-3D0&d=DwMFAg&c=wn3mZQLIuInh2ClcJ0_DIA&r=Z_2A85VL7AQzoqudh6uOyS3bn8etxB7nLN8OBJwQd9A&m=XXSFsdp3C6lw_EoQ52zofB317Ch5AodVrALwfCjiGik&s=rOaLbk6urRmGXdsyO0D1xyUGO52mWjpY1s8ohxYg3-8&e=> LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/travismack<https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com_-3Furl-3Dhttps-253A-252F-252Fwww.linkedin.com-252Fin-252Ftravismack-26data-3D02-257C01-257C-257C1121d49f9e6b4cf248f108d4df580e77-257C14e5497c16da42e69ffa77d19bafe511-257C0-257C0-257C636379016677342180-26sdata-3DtT5E7LsZjSmyreKi4gDCa70EWN-252BZodi-252FhbeCbHNRijI-253D-26reserved-3D0&d=DwMFAg&c=wn3mZQLIuInh2ClcJ0_DIA&r=Z_2A85VL7AQzoqudh6uOyS3bn8etxB7nLN8OBJwQd9A&m=XXSFsdp3C6lw_EoQ52zofB317Ch5AodVrALwfCjiGik&s=QKz1KKXvAldylNJ_R_aJTTdt9r_5dF87zFky8P5VaSk&e=> “The bitterness of poor quality remains long after the sweetness of low price is forgotten.” ________________________________________________________________________________________ NOTICE - This communication may contain confidential and privileged information that is for the sole use of the intended recipient. 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