And let's also remember that using a gasifier and the biochar as a soil amendment can be carbon negative.
Francesco On Mon, May 27, 2013 at 8:47 AM, Dean Still <[email protected]> wrote: > Hi All, > > Let's remember that although burning natural gas when cooking adds CO2 to > the atmosphere and sustainably harvested biomass can be carbon neutral, the > biomass has to be completely combusted not to damage health, etc. > > Complete combustion of biomass is a goal not yet a reality. > > Best, > > Dean > > > On Sun, May 26, 2013 at 3:34 PM, Paul Olivier <[email protected]>wrote: > >> Design stoves that are functional, safe and efficient. And don't forget, >> to design stoves that can be situated in modern kitchens. Getting rich >> people in developed countries to use biomass stoves should be one of our >> big priorities. I think that many of us grossly underestimate the power of >> the tlud concept. Imagine a small tlud less than 10 inches in height; made >> of high quality, long-lasting stainless steel; holding no more than about >> three or four cups of wood or straw pellets; capable of putting out 2 to 3 >> kW of heat over enough time to cook an average meal; elegantly contoured to >> match in beauty high-end kitchen accessories. Such a stove need not cost >> more than $50 US to fabricate. It would produce a beautiful blue flame that >> would rival that of a bottled gas stove. It would produce a valuable >> biochar for farms and gardens. It would be proudly used in London or Laos, >> Boston or Bangladesh. It would appeal to rich and poor alike. >> >> Of course we can build cheap, tin can stoves. But why should we expect >> poor people to use them, while we would never dream of doing so, except, >> perhaps, on an occasional camping trip? >> >> Paul Olivier >> >> >> On Sun, May 26, 2013 at 7:12 PM, mtrevor <[email protected]> wrote: >> >>> ** >>> I concur with Dr Tluds points and think in particular Dr Belonio, Dr. >>> Nurhuda and Paul Oliver all seem to have stoves that could easily be poised >>> to go commercial big time. They seem to work beautifully, are >>> physically good looking and are close to good fuel sources. In addition they >>> are located in places where industrial and mechanical means of manufature >>> exist. >>> Not all of the rest of the world is so fortunate. While these stoves >>> are relatively economical obtaining them is another issue. While a stove >>> could be worth $25.00 $50.00 or even maybe $100.00 having to pay >>> $200.00 $300 or $400.00 to obtain a sample for testing is beyond >>> practicality. No matter what efforts are expended tincanium and hammered >>> tin has little appeal here. In these day of ipads and iphones style is >>> a major hurdle. >>> >>> Lurking in the backgound at the end of the earth. >>> >>> Michael N Trevor >>> Marshall Islands >>> >>> . >>> >>> >>> *From:* Paul Anderson <[email protected]> >>> *To:* Discussion of biomass cooking stoves<[email protected]> >>> *Cc:* Otto Formo <[email protected]> >>> *Sent:* Sunday, May 26, 2013 11:28 PM >>> *Subject:* [Stoves] Specifics about advancement of TLUD stoves Re: fan >>> expertise? >>> >>> Dear all, This is a different and more specific reply to Otto's >>> message. >>> >>> I see four things that will greatly advance the position of >>> micro-gasifier stoves, specifically the TLUD stoves. I am working on all >>> four of them. >>> >>> 1. Prove that stove users will accept TLUD gasifier stoves (at >>> reasonable price, but this is not about price.) and (with a reasonable >>> supply chain for appropriate fuels, but this is not about fuels) : >>> >>> We lack meaningful studies that show that TLUD stoves (when available >>> and with fuels available) are accepted by "typical" cookstove users in any >>> significant segment of the population. We need some documentation that xx >>> number of TLUD users (out of yy number of households that seriously tried >>> TLUD stoves) are still using the stoves zz percent of the time for their >>> cooking, and this is over time periods that are checked again and again >>> each few months. Comments from users should be reported. >>> >>> Start small, and do it well. The money for the bigger studies will >>> follow success with the small numbers. This is NOT about sales. This >>> is about sustained usage. >>> >>> We are working on this topic at Awamu in Uganda with the Quad TLUD >>> stove, but no results to report at this time. Is anyone else doing such >>> studies? >>> >>> 2. Compilation of past results and further data collection about >>> emissions and efficiencies of TLUD stoves. Some TLUD have had major >>> success. And others "suck". Which ones and why? We seek data from the >>> stove testing centers. We also will do further work at Stove Camps in the >>> coming 3 months. >>> >>> 3. Prove the capacities to produce sufficient numbers of TLUD stoves >>> with excellent functioning. The response must be credible for numbers of >>> many 10s of thousands for stoves per year. 20 tinsmiths seated in a >>> factory is not sufficient proof. Prof. Nurhuda has shown that metal >>> stamping can produce his TLUD stoves with good quality. I do not doubt >>> that capacity worldwide could be sufficient when demand is there, but with >>> the goal of creating in-country jobs, for most situations "proof" is still >>> not in hand. >>> >>> 4. Bring the price below US$10 for the low-end products that are still >>> functional about emissions and efficiencies. I am working on this and I >>> hope to report about it at the July stove camp at Aprovecho where TLUD >>> stoves are a focal issue. >>> >>> Note that I did NOT add on having different TLUD stoves such as the ones >>> with fans like Ron is discussing. When they become available, that will >>> be wonderful. But then such stoves will still need to be considered >>> regarding # 1 and #2 and #3 above. They might be the breakthrough for >>> gaining acceptance, or lower emissions, or whatever. >>> >>> Paul >>> >>> Paul S. Anderson, PhD aka "Dr TLUD" >>> Email: [email protected] Skype: paultlud Phone: +1-309-452-7072 >>> Website: www.drtlud.com >>> >>> On 5/26/2013 2:46 AM, Otto Formo wrote: >>> >>> Ron >>> >>> I do not see any point in arguing with all and anybody, to try to >>> convince them , that *gasifing of biomass *are here to BE and will >>> develop more rapidly, than anyone ever belived. >>> >>> What about the issue of biomass as fuel? >>> Here are a LOT of challanges in preparation, production, handeling etc. >>> >>> Paul A and Ron, >>> If, "Open Source", realy means something to you, then create a group of >>> "belivers" and start from there. >>> >>> Thanks. >>> >>> Otto >>> >>> ------------------------------ >>> >>> >>> ------------------------------ >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Stoves mailing list >>> >>> to Send a Message to the list, use the email address >>> [email protected] >>> >>> to UNSUBSCRIBE or Change your List Settings use the web page >>> >>> http://lists.bioenergylists.org/mailman/listinfo/stoves_lists.bioenergylists.org >>> >>> for more Biomass Cooking Stoves, News and Information see our web site: >>> http://stoves.bioenergylists.org/ >>> >>> ------------------------------ >>> >>> No virus found in this message. >>> Checked by AVG - www.avg.com >>> Version: 2013.0.2904 / Virus Database: 3184/6358 - Release Date: 05/25/13 >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Stoves mailing list >>> >>> to Send a Message to the list, use the email address >>> [email protected] >>> >>> to UNSUBSCRIBE or Change your List Settings use the web page >>> >>> http://lists.bioenergylists.org/mailman/listinfo/stoves_lists.bioenergylists.org >>> >>> for more Biomass Cooking Stoves, News and Information see our web site: >>> http://stoves.bioenergylists.org/ >>> >>> >>> >> >> >> -- >> Paul A. Olivier PhD >> 26/5 Phu Dong Thien Vuong >> Dalat >> Vietnam >> >> Louisiana telephone: 1-337-447-4124 (rings Vietnam) >> Mobile: 090-694-1573 (in Vietnam) >> Skype address: Xpolivier >> http://www.esrla.com/ >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Stoves mailing list >> >> to Send a Message to the list, use the email address >> [email protected] >> >> to UNSUBSCRIBE or Change your List Settings use the web page >> >> http://lists.bioenergylists.org/mailman/listinfo/stoves_lists.bioenergylists.org >> >> for more Biomass Cooking Stoves, News and Information see our web site: >> http://stoves.bioenergylists.org/ >> >> >> > > _______________________________________________ > Stoves mailing list > > to Send a Message to the list, use the email address > [email protected] > > to UNSUBSCRIBE or Change your List Settings use the web page > > http://lists.bioenergylists.org/mailman/listinfo/stoves_lists.bioenergylists.org > > for more Biomass Cooking Stoves, News and Information see our web site: > http://stoves.bioenergylists.org/ > > >
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