MCBastos wrote:
Interviewed by CNN on 05/07/2011 14:44, J. Weaver Jr. told the world:
Rufus wrote:
Robert Kaiser wrote:
Rufus schrieb:
I got that a *long* time ago...in point of fact I knew that going in. A
Mozilla based app is clearly *not* what I'm asking for
And it's outside the abilities of the SeaMonkey team to produce a
non-Mozilla-based app, so please just let this thread end.
Robert Kaiser
I doubt that...I've got all sorts of faith in your abilities. If your
resources are limited, that's something else altogether.
...so, volunteer. It sounds like you've got more interest in seeing this
happen than everyone else here put together. So, DO IT. We've got all
sorts of faith in _your_ abilities. ;) -JW
I had a bit of an inspiration regarding this discussion.
In the end, it all hinges in different definitions of "Mozilla,"
"Browser," "Mozilla product", "Seamonkey" and such.
Most of us here define those things from the inside out. Rufus looks at
the surface only.
- We consider a product a browser only if it has its own browser engine.
- Rufus does not care about browser engine; he makes no distinction
between browser and shells.
- We consider something a "Mozilla product" only if its built on Mozilla
technology.
- Rufus considers something a "Mozilla product" if it has the
appropriate name slapped on top.
- We look at the Mozilla project and see the underlying technology.
- Rufus looks at it and sees product branding.
- We define Seamonkey at least in part through its genealogy and
evolution, that is, as the successor to the Mozilla suite and Netscape.
- Rufus looks at it and see a browser and an e-mail client tacked together.
By *our* definitions, it's impossible to make a iOS version of
Seamonkey, because we can't use the most essential piece of the Mozilla
technology, that is, the Gecko engine. Without Gecko, it's no longer
Seamonkey, period.
By *his* definition, only the surface matters, so it should be possible
to build an entirely new, superficially similar but technologically
incompatible product and slap the "Seamonkey" label on top.
And yes, it might be possible to build such a browser-plus-email combo
for iOS, building on top of the native Webkit. Only this would bear no
resemblance to a Mozilla or Seamonkey product, on several levels. Even
the surface (the user interface) would necessarily be different from the
desktop product; touch-and-physics interface in a small screen is
fundamentally different from point-and-click in a big screen. Look at
how little the Mobile Firefox UI resembles the desktop Firefox UI.
Some other team might be interested in doing such a project. From what I
have gathered here, nobody at the Seamonkey team is.
Very, very close...I only added "branding" to the discussion because
this is a business venture of sorts IMO, but I really meant something a
bit deeper than that - User Experience.
What I really meant to get across was a POV from a strictly *user*
standpoint. Someone once mentioned that the team is short on member UE
background, and now I can see that in action. But you got me right -
"nuts and bolts" vs the user experience of, and interaction with, the
product. The user experience *is* the product from the user POV, and
why the user *keeps* using the product...not what the user can't see.
That was/is my point.
And that's the where, what, and why of why I've been talking in terms of
"feature set" and "functionality" - as a user, as long as it looks,
behaves, and feels like SM and comes from the same team it *is* SM no
matter what technology or code it is based upon and that the user can't
see, touch...or even understand the details of in most cases - including
my own. Maintain a user interface and feature set, and to a *user* it's
still the same product - even if the code changes or technical platform
limitations are encountered as with iCab and Opera Mobile.
But I get where the team is coming from now that the *true* actualities
and philosophies behind the "impossible" stance have surfaced - I
personally don't accept that much of anything is "impossible"...it's
just not how I live. Still...I'm glad at least *somebody* gets the gist
of my philosophy.
There *won't* be an iOS version of SM, and at this point I'm not even
sure one would be useful given my growing familiarity with the iOS whole
screen interface; which is another seed I've tried to plant as a
generality for people to just plain think about no matter what they are
developing. That general interface approach is coming fast, and I for
one am still a bit puzzled by it...can't say I like it much.
Anyway, what I really wanted out of such a *new* SM product for iOS was
it's usnet reader - I've since found one (NewsTap - the only one for iOS
presently, so a market is out there) and it's actually pretty nicely
featured. Personally, I'd have zero problem *paying* the SM team or
anyone 99 cents - or more - for such an app...if it were a good one.
--
- Rufus
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