Andreas, your failure to understand that authoring tools, web specifications and accessibility all need to be considered together, goes some way to explaining the current situation.
W3C relies on a reductionist approach whereas commonsense suggests an holistic one, possibly using microformats for each of these three groups would offer many benefits. regards Jonathan Chetwynd On 6 Feb 2007, at 21:49, Andreas Neumann wrote: Jonathan Chetwynd wrote: > Andreas, > > where are the facts that demonstrate the popularity of the SVG1.1 > spec that you are referring to? I don't remember making a statement about SVG 1.1s popularity. I just said that most or all of the features in SVG 1.1 have use cases in one or the other domains. > > I'm referring to a spec that helps the average joe on the street > to author. > presumably you know of ms paint, did you perhaps visit http:// > www.isketch.org > by these standards the SVG1.1 spec is extremely bloated. well, perhaps you mix up authoring tools and a specification/graphics format. So, please be specific. What feature in SVG 1.1 would you like to get rid off and why? > > Where is the authoring tool that anyone can just pick up and use? > say comparable with the many text editors or tuxpaint? again, what has the authoring tool to do with the graphics format? > > and it's not just that the developers got carried away with > feature bloat, it's that accessibility got buried at the same time. > > you fail to mention the accessibility issues. > there still isn't any accessibility software such as a screen > reader that operates with any SVG viewer. After how many years? I don't understand how a graphics format/specification should be responsible for implementing a screen reader. Isn't this the responsibility of the user agent (SVG viewer or web browser)? And there even is one SVG viewer that allows to read selected text. In Safari Webkit (next version) it is possible to use text to speech by using the MacOSX builtin text to speech engine. I am sure other SVG viewers could use that engine as well. Same on Windows. Just write feature requests to the SVG viewer/browser vendors. This really isn't an issue about the graphics format. > keyboard navigation is being bolted on as an after-thought, in > part because I filed bugs and pester regularly > audio wasn't included, and yet macromedia's flash took off... Audio and Video is included in SVG 1.2 Tiny. > you've found a particular niche, but be aware it isn't the only > one, games frequently rely on sound as do films and animation. > take a look at tuxpaint to hear how sound can be integrated into > the authoring environment, to literally make music as you draw. yes, thats one use case - and it will be possible in SVG 1.2 tiny. > > there are many other accessibility issues and it's not at all > clear how these will be resolved so very late in the day.... > I am sure there are. But bear in mind that not all formats and software (in this case inkscape) is targetted towards kids or handicapped persons. Also, if you are very specific and make consistent proposals, I am sure your accessibility wishes won't be ignored. But just saying this and that is not available and it sucks, without being specific or contributing, won't work. Andreas -- ---------------------------------------------- Andreas Neumann Institute of Cartography ETH Zurich Wolfgang-Paulistrasse 15 CH-8093 Zurich, Switzerland Phone: ++41-44-633 3031, Fax: ++41-44-633 1153 e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] www: http://www.carto.net/neumann/ SVG.Open: http://www.svgopen.org/ Carto.net: http://www.carto.net/ ----- To unsubscribe send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] -or- visit http://groups.yahoo.com/group/svg-developers and click "edit my membership" ---- Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/svg-developers/ <*> Your email settings: Individual Email | Traditional <*> To change settings online go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/svg-developers/join (Yahoo! ID required) <*> To change settings via email: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
