One thing that might be worth thinking through here, is to what extend
it would be worth forcing people into another product. Sure, it is an
economic question for a company how many products to have running
simultaneously. Yet, it is an economic question for the market, to what
extend they want the transfer.
Look at what happened with Windows. Microsoft wanted to push things out
on the market, and some would claim "with good reasons". Still, when
they wanted to pull the XP plug, they were forced by the market to
extend for another five years. And still today you will find XP machines
out there. They tried the same campaign on having the users transfer to
win8, even let people have the Win8.1 for free. Many users decided to
stick to their trusty Win7 systems. and what happened when they gave
away Win10? Why is it that the market in general still lingers with Win7?
I agree, Microsoft is a huge company. With whatever goodwill we want to
put into it, VFO is a tiny go in comparison. Yet, they too have to do
economical considerations. I will give a tiny example below, just to
illustrate my point. Take it for what it is worth, since I am not able
to verify the exact numbers, but it should give the tip of the iceberg
named "Economic considerations", seen from the market's viewpoint. To
what extend all of that can be applied in your local area, I am unable
to determine, but again it should line up but one of the challenges that
might cause things to take one or the other direction.
Locally, we have an agreement with the Authorities, that visually
impaired and totally blind people - for whom the computer could be said
to be a NECESSARY DAILY AID, for you to live a normal life - they will
pay the extra equipment costs. That is, you will have to buy your own
computer, but they will pay the screen reader, and if necessary the
Braille display. I do know, that in other countries they have more or
less similar coverage plans. And, in some places you would have to buy
all the computer equipment, but the authorities may pay a certain
percentage of the price. still other places, it all will have to be
covered either by the blind himself, or through some sort of cherity. In
many cases though, it is not just the person himself who will carry the
cost; meaning that if numerous users would have to upgrade their
computer systems, it would add up to astronomic figures. Let's dive into
a quick example.
Again, let me talk locally, since that is what I would have the closest
idea about, though even it will have to be based on some presumptions.
A few years back, it was estimated that our country would hold a
low-vision population of some 100 thousand. We won't need to deal with
all that number here, since many could be helped with glasses, normal
upscaling of fonts on a standard tablet, or a magnifying glass; even
just minor adjusted light conditions. Still, if we just took 10% of the
estimated low-vision population, we end up with 10000 users. Let's now
tell that most of them are NOT Window-Eyes users, though Window-Eyes has
been the main priority from the authorities for a handful years, we
could probably end up with something like 2000 Window-eyes users. Again,
a presumed number, but still here we go; my point.
If VFO really should decide on having the screen reader of Window-Eyes
discontinued, it would mean that all these users would have to switch to
another screen reader. What then if VFO offers us a special price, let's
say 500 dollars, for switching our license to Jaws (or whatever a new
product might be named)? You then would end up with a total cost for the
authorities of:
500 dollars fee, times, 2000 users; equals; 1 million dollars.
In a bigger setting - with more users - the price would be far higher.
Is it realistic, that the authorities would have a budget, which JUST
OVERNIGHT would be able to cover such a tremendous amount, simply for
getting the blind population updated? And what if you live in a place
where the whole cost, or bigger part thereof, will have to be covered by
a cherity organization? Will they be able to throw a million dollars on
the table, just for the community of blind people to get going? You
would know your local possibilities best, and can try figure what it
would pose kind of a load on the local coverage system. And then, we
have not even mentioned the costs of having the community retrained to
some new system. Many of you users on the list, will be quite self-going
users, but such is definitely not the case way cross the board. Many
users will need prolonged and tidious amounts of retraining. And if you,
for the samplification of it all, just imagine a 100 dollar average for
each user's retraining, you can add that into the above calculation.
Even if the local coverage system should have the called for amount on
their disposal, WOULD they really prioritize such a switch?
What then is the alternatives?
The blind user might try to raise money on their own. For you who
already have raised numerous thousands of dollars in buying, updating
and repairing your special equipment through the years, are you ready to
do another heavy investment in switching? For those who have been used
to some sort of refunding practice, will you be ready to find yourself
all on your own with the heavy pricing, along with who knows how long a
learning curve? And were you forced to climb a learning curve, will you
really prioritize a product that would cost you loads of money - when
low-cost, or even free products do exist? You, and only YOU, can make
the answers. But for a screen reader manufacturer to take too big, and
too quick steps, could be rather challenging, in a cramped market. No
matter how big a market-share they have, or how good they want to be.
OK, many a user will have little or no choices. She might be a student,
needing to deal with Windows-based systems, or be in a work situation
where there is no other OS alternatives. Again, will it be likely that
the employer will pay a number of hundred-dollar bills for changing
screen reader, and then leave the employee alone for the next three
days, paid or not, for getting trained with the new screen reader? Or,
is it likely it will be a welcome excuse to inform the blind person that:
"Sorry, but this company have long been considering down-sizing a
bit, and you know technology takes over many human hands these days. You
have been one of our most trusty workers for all these years, and we do
want to appreciate that; so would you please mind to hand in your
termination papers????" -
Oh, have we ever heard all that blah-blah-blah before?
Sure, after all, more and more activities are moving over on other
platforms. At least per date. Iphones, IPads, Android systems, and the
Linux and Mac products - they all seem to catch the eyes and minds of
the general popularity market. Now aday you cannot perform ANYTHING,
without having an app telling you so, on your mobile device. And just
the other day, I learned that now they even have an app, that apparently
would let the user know when they have spent enough time on the device,
and "maybe you should take a break now...".
So who knows, if they keep Window-Eyes alive for another year or two -
more or less supported - perhaps most users don't even want it any
longer. :)
Surely enough, VFO can do whatever they want, and likely they are going
to. And that most definitely is the right of any company to make their
decisions on what they find most fitting for the moment. And who knows,
maybe they even come up with good and workable solutions, that we all
will find to be quite convenient (however unlikely it might feel at the
moment). And honestly, they do not have to care whether the costs would
grow overhead, or if you are losing your job or schooling becomes
troublesome. Or, do they? Ain't they living namely on the money from
their sales? If a market cannot bear the costs of upgrading or
switching, would that not mean sales to go down? Wasn't that why
Microsoft was told to prolong the XP lifetime?
What I have tried to visualize, is that the questions are many. Perhaps
the VFO team already has been considering these and many more questions,
and currently are trying to figure how to deal with it all. Probably,
that is why they do not inform us of any final facts yet. And maybe,
they are just before making breaking news for everyone of us. What I
still find to be the hardest - and my guess goes, that is what actually
nests the biggest trouble with most of you - is that we are left without
any information at all. Would we have been OK in knowing that they are
trying to find smooth transfering methods for us to switch to the other
screen reader? Would we be happy to know, that though Window-Eyes might
be suffering, they are going to come up with a blended screen reader -
neither Jaws, nor Window-Eyes, nor ZoomText; but something totally new?
Or, would we even be thankful to be informed that they are planning to
keep Window-Eyes going for another 12 months, and then pull the plug? I
mean, even Microsoft has already told their customers, that in little
more than three years, they are going to pull the Win7 plug. That leaves
the market the chance of getting prepared, and the individual user the
time to make his personal choice on where to go next. My hope would be,
that VFO will get better at informing us on what they intend for the coming.
Allright, you could all rush out now and get yourself alternatives. Go
ahead, buy a Mac, an IPhone, two Android tablets, and make sure you
don't forget another three computers running NVDA and Narrator. - Or,
actually... Calm down. Long as we have no further information, let's
give it the better side. As I have pointed out earlier on the list, all
they can do is to discontinue the product. Your personal copy of the
screen reader, at least if it is a paid-for version, will keep running.
And for many a user, that might be the case, long enough to let you get
ready for some of tomorrow's technology. Admittedly, things look strange
at the moment, and maybe that is their way of preparing the market for
the shock of it all being discontinued. But my screen reader works for
today, and tomorrow will have more than enough with its own anxieties.
On 11/22/2016 11:57 PM, Don H via Talk wrote:
> Have been a WE user since version 1.1 if my memory serves me
> correctly. Seeing the writing on the wall I have began the process of
> learning NVDA and I am finding it very useable. I think that GW sold
> us out a long time ago and the only direction WE will now go is down.
> So sorry to think and say that as I have always felt that WE was the
> best scren reader out there. I guess nothing lasts forever in todays
> world.
>
> On 11/22/2016 4:46 PM, Vaughan Dodd via Talk wrote:
>> I have made that decision with respect to personal computing.
>>
>> Hauled out my MacBook purchased over a year ago last weekend. Got
>> sighted assistance to crank into proper life. And made real progress
>> with VoiceOver. A long way to go, but I plan to buy the book from
>> Mosen Consulting on learning to use Pages. Already using Mail and
>> plan to play with Safari very soon. Ok: Apple's customer service
>> isn't great either, (apart from sales), but accessibility is better
>> than the VFO and Microsoft combination, and for me it is a point of
>> principle now.
>>
>> Maybe I'm unreasonable. When Humanware shifted out of New Zealand
>> (where I live) I decided never to buy another Humanware product. And
>> - I've stuck to that position for almost 10 years. I did understand
>> Humanware's business decision, which of itself, made perfect
>> sense. As things stand - I don't plan to buy another VFO
>> product. My money is worth something, and given the abysmal customer
>> relations we are seeing, VFO and I fundamentally disagree on how much
>> my customer patronage should be valued.
>>
>> Although we on this list have these discussions based on an event
>> such as the departure of respected virtual friend, staff turnover is
>> natural and healthy. Staff turnover is not for me the central
>> point. My concern is the arrogant disregard from Corporate VFO when
>> loyal customers start by asking reasonable questions, based on
>> reasonable concerns.
>>
>> We should probably conclude that the list is not being monitored by
>> senior VFO Executives. I do not expect staff to try and defend the
>> behaviours of the senior executive. I expect Vice Presidents and
>> above to lead accountability to their customers.
>>
>> VFO is a multi-national, multi-million dollar corporate, receiving
>> Government contracts in numerous countries. So: if people can make
>> informed choices regarding alternatives to what they currently have,
>> vote with feet, dollars, word of mouth advertising and everything
>> else that is available.
>>
>>
>> Vaughan.
>>
>>
>> Vaughan.
>>
>>
>>
>> Please telephone the Regional Disability and Health Team prior to
>> emailing or faxing any new referrals.
>>
>> Vaughan Dodd, Regional Disability Advisor.
>>
>> Desk2desk: 97187.
>> Email: vaughan.dodd...@msd.govt.nz.
>> For referrals: email fax_gnlis001_health_disabil...@msd.govt.nz.
>>
>> Our up-to-date desk file is located at:
>> http://doogle.ssi.govt.nz/resources/publications/reports-research/regional/auckland/auckland-health-disability-resources.html
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: Talk
>> [mailto:talk-bounces+vaughan.dodd001=msd.govt...@lists.window-eyes.com]
>> On Behalf Of Matthew Chao via Talk
>> Sent: Wednesday, 23 November 2016 11:04 a.m.
>> To: Tony Hernandez; Window-Eyes Discussion List
>> Subject: Re: Steve Clower
>>
>> Tell you what - if we're forced to by Shark, I may just forget about
>> Windows machines as much as I can. Being forced into a screenreader
>> and culture I don't like is like having our new president-elect take
>> officve. I like neither of them. Just my thoughts.--Matthew Chao
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> On 11/22/2016 4:56 PM, Tony Hernandez via Talk wrote:
>>> I wrote an e-mail to i...@vfo-group.com asking about this. Perhaps if
>>> enough people did the same, they might feel it appropriate to give
>>> some kind of info about this. It's worth a shot. What's the worst they
>>> could do in response?
>>>
>>>
>>> On 11/22/2016 11:59 AM, Singing Sparrow via Talk wrote:
>>>> You know I feel this as well; The thing is that Since Asquared bought
>>>> out GWMicro the software has not gotten any better; the tech support
>>>> has gotten lax in what they do; and lets face it the main
>>>> contributers for the Window eyes screen reader have all but gone.
>>>>
>>>> So Yes I do agree the writing is on the wall for window eyes.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On 11/22/2016 8:20 AM, Russ Kiehne via Talk wrote:
>>>>> It's also news to me as well. With several employees leaving AI
>>>>> Squared, it looks like the writing is on the wall for Window Eyes!
>>>>>
>>>>> -----Original Message----- From: Reeva Webb via Talk
>>>>> Sent: Monday, November 21, 2016 9:54 AM
>>>>> To: Window-Eyes Discussion List ; kitty hevener
>>>>> Subject: Re: Steve Clower
>>>>>
>>>>> :( this is news to me. I must have missed the email announcing he
>>>>> was leaving. Need anymore proof we is going to be killed off yet?
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> On Mon, Nov 21, 2016 at 11:08 AM kitty hevener via Talk <
>>>>> talk@lists.window-eyes.com> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> reg, a few weeks ago, he emailed us to say he was leaving. I
>>>>>> forgot exactly what his last date was, but perhaps it has happened.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>>>> From: Reg Webb via Talk
>>>>>> Sent: Monday, November 21, 2016 9:03 AM
>>>>>> To: talk@lists.window-eyes.com
>>>>>> Subject: Steve Clower
>>>>>>
>>>>>> After having striven mightily to help me with a Sonar problem, my
>>>>>> last mail to Steve Clower got an automated reply, indicating that
>>>>>> he has left A I Squared. This was a bit sudden wasn't it?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> If you have any support matters pending with Steve, you might want
>>>>>> to make sure that they are still in the works.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> --
>>>>>> Reg
>>>>>> <regw...@btinternet.com>
>>>>>>
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