First of all, a small correction. I did not mean to say whether there
will be more Window-Eyes users than Jaws users locally. I just said that
the authorities have prioritized the WE screen reader for a handful years.
In practical terms, that means that if you are a new user, and do apply
for a screen reader, and you don't have special reasons for sticking to
a particular product, you likely will be given a copy of Window-Eyes.
Specially so, since you can install the localized version of WE, on as
many computers as possible, which is not the case with Jaws (from what I
am told).
Would you happen to be an existing Jaws user, or a user of any other
screen reader, and need an update of your product, you will still get
the upgrade of your existing product. So, you are currently not forced
to change screen reader.
Pricing, licensing and whatever other reasons, currently have been a bit
more favorable on Window-Eyes than what was the case with Jaws. On the
other hand, to my understanding Jaws has been on the market over here,
for a few years more than Window-eyes, and for different reasons were
the prioritized product from many authority agents for a number of
years. As such, we will have a considerable number of existing Jaws
users - from old.
Hope that cleared up my somehow vague description of the local practice,
and do apologize for not being too specific in my original message. If
you look at my illustrative figures, I even specified that quite a
number of users would NOT be current Window-Eyes users. That is why my
figures did go that low.
Having all that said, let's go back another five years or so, and things
were a bit different. At that time, it was even more up to the user to
determine what screen reader he or she wanted. In those days, the local
dealers did a job on convincing you why you should choose their product,
above the others. Locally, you would find both Window-Eyes, Supernova,
and Jaws. Each being promoted as more or less superior. With some
dealers being a bit more on the forefront, this caused a load of users
to choose the most promoted screen reader; not necessarily the one that
served them the better, or the one that would be most economic for the
paying authorities. Licensing issues, along with the fact that
Window-Eyes at the time could be said to be a bit outstanding, amongst
other things due to the scripting capabilities, might have been some
heavy reasons why the authorities decided to make it more of a default
choice, for the newer users.
Yet, this all will be a bit simplified a picture of the whole situation.
You might experience slight differences from one area in our country, to
the other. It all would depend on how much the user insist on going for
one screen reader, or the other. Sometimes, if a user wants a specific
Braille display, and that happens to be the one the Jaws dealer would be
selling, the authority agent who process your application, might judge
that it will be an easier go to have one and same dealer for the
complete computer system. Should the next user insist on a Braille
display, a Braille embosser, or another piece of equipment that is sold
by the Window-Eyes dealer, again the agent might find it more convenient
to order a total package from one and same seller. And then, if the user
is a bit more informed, and insist on choosing one product from that
dealer, and the other product from the next dealer, the agent will
likely put together a cross-board package for you.
Unfortunately, in this regard, the dealer of Window-Eyes might not
necessarily be the most foreground one, though that might be just what I
as an end-user would feel. Alot of these decisions, are made behind the
scene, since every so often, the authorities will have a review of their
contracts with the dealers in the market. Such a review, about a decade
ago, lead to at least one screen reader falling totally out of the
approved list of products, due to the dealer not meeting the
requirements from the authorities. The dealers will have to meet
requirements on delivering time, customer service, pricing and
licensing, stock-keeping - along with who knows whatever else. When will
they do the next review? I do not know, and noone can tell if they will
still stick with Window-Eyes as the prioritized screen reader.
I am living in Scandinavia, but these kind of authority coverage plans,
will exist even in other European countries, with whatever modifications
might be the case. Some countries have a "one size fits all" policy,
others are a bit more flexible. Some are on a very strict budget, others
have more loose frames on the economic part. And it differs a bit from
one country to the other, exactly what authorities will be set to handle
and process your applications. In one country, it would be the School
For The Blind, in the next it might be the Blind Organization, and in
the third it might be the Office For Social Pensions who will be the
Executive authority on the matter. Once again, you can see there are
great differences around the globe, differences that you as an end-user
might not always be aware of.
In some areas, it is just about impossible for a blind person to acquire
any technical aids, unless you are a student, or happen to be in a work
situation. Such was, for instance, the case here locally, about 15-20
years ago. You would have to really come up with good arguments, were
you to have a computer system paid, were you not in school or work
situations. Then, the authorities realized, that even a home-bound blind
user, will have to pay his bills, order his medication, write his
letters, and fill in his applications. How could you, without a computer
for the blind (including all screen reader and other necessary
equipment) - especially now aday when they put more and more services
out in electronic formats. Hence, they decided to change practice, and
let us have the special equipment paid, but we will have to buy and
maintain our personal computer, the ink-printer, and any other equipment
that could be told to be "standard" for every computer user, blind or
sighted. This, to a certain degree, would even include the software you
want to install on the computer.
Well, I won't bother you all with more details. It is of no real benefit
for you, since it will be of more individual character, and tied up with
many details in local customs and living conditions. What I have tried
to do, is simply just to illustrate and stress my point:
Things differs from one place on the globe, to the other.
Did you know, for instance, that GW for years has had a special
licensing policy locally? If I accept to run the LOCALE version of
Window-Eyes, that is a version translated to the locale language, I can
install it on as many computers as I want. Do I, for whatever good
reasons I might have, on the other hand want to run the English version
of the very same screen reader, I am only allowed to run it on a very
restricted number of computers, think it was three or five units. Again,
things to be aware of, that might differ from one country to the other.
Explain why, feel what you want, but that is the hard facts.
Though none of this really helps you much in your local situation,
perhaps it was just interesting to know a bit about how things are
handled outside your vicinity. At least, I find it interesting to notice
what kind of conditions would apply in different places, since it might
help us to understand people a bit more. Take all of what I have told
you, as the reflections and observations of a long-time end-user, with a
bit of experience, and use it as a curosity. I do not promote any
standpoint, just inform you of some observed differences.
David
On 11/24/2016 6:06 AM, Sky Mundell wrote:
> What country do you live in? You menshened that the blind people in your
> country mostly use Window-Eyes
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: David
>
> Might be so, at least in certain places around the globe. I only could talk
> from locale perspectives.
>
> The Jaws screen reader has for long been a headache for the paying
> authorities, due to its strictness in copyright and licensing. Besides, one
> official told me - and note that this is a few years old info, that Jaws was
> way overpriced locally. At the time, I think Jaws was just about 1000
> dollars, in the USA. Locally here, the price without further explanation was
> near 6000 dollars. Like he expressed it: "Somewhere across the Atlantic, that
> price multiplies nearly by six."
>
> Since the licensing policy of GW was not yet as strict, and though pricing is
> a bit higher here than in the States, still Window-Eyes turns out the cheaper
> alternative, it has been the prioritized screen reader of several officials
> locally.
>
> One valid question of course now is, what VFO will do with all the dealers.
> As it stands, one dealer sold Window-Eyes and SuperNova, the other sold Jaws.
> Are they both going to be in business outperforming each other? Or, will the
> one have to leave, and the other be the only alternative on the locale
> market? If the latter alternative will happen, people will not be able to
> even make a personal choice, since screen reader manufacturers do not sell
> directly to end-users outside their home-market. That would definitely force
> a number of people to leave Windows machines, simply just to get an
> alternative.
>
> I do not know conditions all over the globe, of course I don't, and I am not
> arguing anything of what you said. But I am ready to claim that business
> might differ a bit from one part of the world to the other. And the "We are
> the only ones" idea, might not necessarily be the one that leads to the
> highest market-share. For many people and local faculties, the end-question
> is a matter of economy. That, at least, will stay the same all over the
> planet. What has happened in the past, with several manufacturers, and a
> number of products to choose from, cannot necessarily be transfered into a
> situation with one huge actor, and some small ones. It might be smarter to
> phase things out over a period of time, than to simply just pull the plug.
> Given enough time, the market might adjust more smoothly. And I am by no
> means the one to predict what kind of business model will be the one chosen
> by VFO, or any other actor. I am just making a few observations, doing a bit
> of general reasoni
ng, and letting you all know that things might have more than one perspective.
What seems to be the case from your local perspective, might seem totally
different from another perspective.
>
> For instance, you claim that they sued the State Agencies, if they did not
> buy their product? That will work in the States, maybe. Doubt they could get
> much far with that approach in Europe. There is even laws that are meant to
> prevent such business activities. Besides, Europe has had their own screen
> reader manufacturers up through the years, and so is the case with hardware
> like Braille displays and speech synthesizers.
> Once they are going International, a company will have to deal with totally
> different laws and practices from one place to the other. What works in the
> US, might not even work in Canada, or in Brazil. That's why I am not sure if
> we should do too much of specculations. Let's face the facts, and discuss
> them.
>
> Scene of this world is rapidly changing. In two years, our screen reader has
> been sold twice. How long will the new owner keep it? Or, how long will any
> screen reader even stay in business? Are you totally sure you really want to
> insist on a screen reader with tomorrow's technology?
> What if you could have a graphical display - somehow similar to a Braille
> display, with pins that came up - which gave you a tactile and correct copy
> of the screen contents? You know longer would need a screen reader to do any
> interpretation. What you could touch and feel, would be exactly the shape
> that formed on the visual screen. Sure, were you to have one pin for each
> pixel on the screen, your tactile display would be tremendously huge and
> clumsy. But you are already trained to only concentrate on a small part of
> the screen, and build a complete picture of it all in your brain. Besides,
> even sighted people now aday, love to stare at their tiny cellphone display,
> with far less pixels. Imagine you were offered a display, the size of a CD
> cover, holding a matrix of something like 50 by 60 pins. It would not amount
> up to anything more pins than what is inside a 40-cell Braille display
> currently; so the price might not even be all that scarry. The whole unit
> might be under a
pound, or less than half a kilogram.
>
> Each pin on the unit, would represent one pixel on the screen. Small buttons
> would let you scroll up, down and sideways on the screen; moving the unit
> round the screen contents. Since it would make a true copy of the shapes on
> the screen, you don't even have to bother learning Braille. You would not be
> stopped by undefined graphics, and if the pins could have been raised to
> different hights, you might even have a way of simplified color notion. What
> you feel, is what they see! Do you still want a screen reader? Still want to
> risk that new updates from your software manufacturer will break the screen
> reader's functionality? Or having to chance on the fact that next generation
> of soft- or hardware will be compatible with the interface and programming
> language your screen reader was manufactured under?
>
> OK, till now, this all has been a dream. One big show-stopper has been the
> pricing of Braille cells, or any technology that would resemble such cells.
> Recently though, we have heard of the neww Braille displays - which
> apparently will sell for a fraction of the traditional ones. That must mean,
> that prices on the pins to pop up and down, likely have been greatly reduced.
> Or, was there anyone manufacturer out there that highly over-priced their
> traditional units? I only can observe that the pricing issue might not be the
> biggest issue any longer. Furthermore, I recently read about some interesting
> development that is currently going on, which might bring things closer to
> realization, than what we have been used to think. And that was even about a
> unit that would be the size of a standard PC mouse.
>
> For those of you, who happen to be familiar with the old-time product named
> Optacon, you will have a clue what I am talking about. The rest of you, will
> have to think a bit non-traditionally here, but still you might want to
> consider if screen readers is the ABSOLUTE answer for tomorrow.
>
>
> On 11/23/2016 8:02 AM, Sky Mundell wrote:
> > Hi Grant. Your absolutely right. The reason why JAWS got the government
> > agencies was because they sued any state agencies who did not purchase JAWS.
> > In other words, they threatened the agencies to either buy JAWS or be
> sued > and that scared the agencies so much that they began purchasing only
> JAWS.
> > As a result, many of the earlier windows screen readers, like Slimware >
> Window Bridge, all went out of business.
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Talk [mailto:[email protected]] On >
> Behalf Of Grant Metcalf via Talk > Sent: Tuesday, November 22, 2016 10:42 PM
> > To: David; Window-Eyes Discussion List > Subject: Response to Dve about
> WindowEyes and and the Shark > > Hi dave, > You have many good points with
> respect to business expenses and compotition.
> >
> > Unfortunately, The Shark got the government involved in purchasing their
> > product and so made it difficult for other screen reader programs to be as
> > well funded as VFO is. I suspect that because the government is so involved
> > with JFW it will be the primary product for VFO dispite our preferences.
> > Grandpa DOS will never purchase the Shark, but if I change, it will
> probably > be to NVDA or perhaps Narrator should I have the money to spend.
> The other > unfortunate thing is that all those who have taxable income will
> be paying > for the Shark anyway. To often big business and government work
> > hand-in-hand. Weep out loud!
> >
> > Grandpa DOS
> >
> > O
> >
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