I think that developers of JOSM are another noteworthy exception to add along with openstreetmap-carto. Even if they break something, they are quick to respond, and it seems that there's always some work going on.
But yes, I do share your feelings to a degree as well. People from many core OSM projects seem they would like to continue status quo indefinitely.. The main project that I think is one of the most important, but at the same time not getting enough attention is openstreetmap-website. There's so much that could be done in order to facilitate mapper communication and improve usability. I *could* learn Ruby to implement some incremental improvements, but I would have to lose a few months on it and it's not a transferable skill for me (I'm not a web developer, or even a programmer, though I use Bash, Python and Tcl.). There are many quite sensible improvements that haven't been addresed for a long time. I have seen a similar phenomenon in Polish OSM community. There have been a few tools and data analyses/visualisations made by the "old guard" i.e. people who were active leaders in our community 7 or so years ago, who now have work and family wasting their time. But they did not take care to propagate the knowledge. Often it's a challenge to get sources form them to build it on your own. At the end of the day there's much that could be done to improve OSM if one took a holistic approach, having multiple projects working on some common goals, but with maintainers caring mostly about their turf and OSMF (by design) being concerned mostly with funding, licensing and running *WGs this is not happening. Michał On Tue, Nov 21, 2017 at 2:47 PM, Darafei "Komяpa" Praliaskouski < m...@komzpa.net> wrote: > > вс, 19 нояб. 2017 г. в 1:11, Christoph Hormann <o...@imagico.de>: > >> On Saturday 18 November 2017, Ilya Zverev wrote: >> > john whelan wrote: >> > > No you need to build up trust again and it takes time. Only then >> > > will your ideas start to gain acceptance. >> > >> > Oh come on. I've been a mapper since 2010, I've hosted dozens of >> > events, I've written many articles and tools, some of which you might >> > have used, I'm on the Board currently, and still my proposals and >> > pull requests fail again and again, because there is no trust in >> > OpenStreetMap. There is nothing you can to to build up trust. Your >> > ideas will never get acceptance, it's just nitpicking and "unwritten >> > rules" all over. >> >> I hope you are aware that with this you deny everyone who has ever >> voiced critique on any of your proposals and pull requests to have a >> competent opinion on the topic in question. >> > > (sorry for my Russian straightness) > > Many words, long story short: technology-wise, OpenStreetMap core is dead. > > There is no development outside of a limited set of companies, and even > that is mostly aimed at profit of the company, not the OSM community. All > of it is done in "consumer" role. > > People trying to gain knowledge of developing something in non-"consumer" > paradigm get shamed all over mailing lists. Or have a look what it takes to > launch any kind of popular OSM editor, be it Potlatch or Maps.me, in terms > of amount of hate towards you. > > It is impossible to get anything merged into core infrastructure. If > initial author stepped away from the project, there is a group of ~5 people > who effectively say no to any change. > > This year I got several PRs reviewed and merged into PostGIS, yet even > simple configuration/limit changes to openstreetmap.org get ignored. > > I've posted a -dev mail about reusing nighttime of tile rendering servers. > Some likes on GitHub, some reviews from passer-by's, no merge, nothing > about "what to fix to get it merged". For a year. Patience you say? > https://github.com/openstreetmap/mod_tile/pull/152 > > /map call is technically 40x slower than it should be, but issue is being > closed with "we are not complete idiots" comments. No action taken wherever. > https://github.com/openstreetmap/operations/issues/135 > > "I'm worried about this. I have not performed a technical review." as a > blocker for PR merge: > https://github.com/gravitystorm/openstreetmap-carto/pull/2939 > > Basically, most of wide ~2011 dev community was hired away, and core is in > hands of those who weren't hired away by Map* for whatever reason, be that > lack of social skills or lack of technical skills. You've got no fresh > blood, and there's no road map for it to improve. > > _______________________________________________ > talk mailing list > talk@openstreetmap.org > https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk > >
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