OSM isn't a closed system. I get the impression that it has evolved over time. There is a core database engine and then there seems to be addons. Lots of them like JOSM.
The problem is if you touch something basic the interface may change for the addons and that's a big problem. Using XML helps keep the interfaces stable but there are performance issues. Perhaps what we should do is a drive to document the interfaces and possibly the data flows through what I was going to say system but it seems almost much larger than that. Traditionally with computer systems there is a formal change management system. A problem is identified such as the database may contain web addresses that point to malware. Currently there is a lot of creative work being done here using characters outside the normal ANSI base set. One extended German character looks very much like a letter d for example except to a computer which points to a different web address. Perhaps we could start by identifying problems such as this. I'm sure someone could run something down the database to check that all the characters in a web address are in the base ANSI set. It's not perfect but it would be a start. Cheerio John On 21 November 2017 at 12:48, Michał Brzozowski <www.ha...@gmail.com> wrote: > I think that developers of JOSM are another noteworthy exception to add > along with openstreetmap-carto. Even if they break something, they are > quick to respond, and it seems that there's always some work going on. > > But yes, I do share your feelings to a degree as well. People from many > core OSM projects seem they would like to continue status quo indefinitely.. > > The main project that I think is one of the most important, but at the > same time not getting enough attention is openstreetmap-website. There's so > much that could be done in order to facilitate mapper communication and > improve usability. I *could* learn Ruby to implement some incremental > improvements, but I would have to lose a few months on it and it's not a > transferable skill for me (I'm not a web developer, or even a programmer, > though I use Bash, Python and Tcl.). There are many quite sensible > improvements that haven't been addresed for a long time. > > I have seen a similar phenomenon in Polish OSM community. There have been > a few tools and data analyses/visualisations made by the "old guard" i.e. > people who were active leaders in our community 7 or so years ago, who now > have work and family wasting their time. But they did not take care to > propagate the knowledge. Often it's a challenge to get sources form them to > build it on your own. > > At the end of the day there's much that could be done to improve OSM if > one took a holistic approach, having multiple projects working on some > common goals, but with maintainers caring mostly about their turf and OSMF > (by design) being concerned mostly with funding, licensing and running *WGs > this is not happening. > > Michał > > On Tue, Nov 21, 2017 at 2:47 PM, Darafei "Komяpa" Praliaskouski < > m...@komzpa.net> wrote: > >> >> вс, 19 нояб. 2017 г. в 1:11, Christoph Hormann <o...@imagico.de>: >> >>> On Saturday 18 November 2017, Ilya Zverev wrote: >>> > john whelan wrote: >>> > > No you need to build up trust again and it takes time. Only then >>> > > will your ideas start to gain acceptance. >>> > >>> > Oh come on. I've been a mapper since 2010, I've hosted dozens of >>> > events, I've written many articles and tools, some of which you might >>> > have used, I'm on the Board currently, and still my proposals and >>> > pull requests fail again and again, because there is no trust in >>> > OpenStreetMap. There is nothing you can to to build up trust. Your >>> > ideas will never get acceptance, it's just nitpicking and "unwritten >>> > rules" all over. >>> >>> I hope you are aware that with this you deny everyone who has ever >>> voiced critique on any of your proposals and pull requests to have a >>> competent opinion on the topic in question. >>> >> >> (sorry for my Russian straightness) >> >> Many words, long story short: technology-wise, OpenStreetMap core is dead. >> >> There is no development outside of a limited set of companies, and even >> that is mostly aimed at profit of the company, not the OSM community. All >> of it is done in "consumer" role. >> >> People trying to gain knowledge of developing something in non-"consumer" >> paradigm get shamed all over mailing lists. Or have a look what it takes to >> launch any kind of popular OSM editor, be it Potlatch or Maps.me, in terms >> of amount of hate towards you. >> >> It is impossible to get anything merged into core infrastructure. If >> initial author stepped away from the project, there is a group of ~5 people >> who effectively say no to any change. >> >> This year I got several PRs reviewed and merged into PostGIS, yet even >> simple configuration/limit changes to openstreetmap.org get ignored. >> >> I've posted a -dev mail about reusing nighttime of tile rendering >> servers. Some likes on GitHub, some reviews from passer-by's, no merge, >> nothing about "what to fix to get it merged". For a year. Patience you say? >> https://github.com/openstreetmap/mod_tile/pull/152 >> >> /map call is technically 40x slower than it should be, but issue is being >> closed with "we are not complete idiots" comments. No action taken wherever. >> https://github.com/openstreetmap/operations/issues/135 >> >> "I'm worried about this. I have not performed a technical review." as a >> blocker for PR merge: >> https://github.com/gravitystorm/openstreetmap-carto/pull/2939 >> >> Basically, most of wide ~2011 dev community was hired away, and core is >> in hands of those who weren't hired away by Map* for whatever reason, be >> that lack of social skills or lack of technical skills. You've got no fresh >> blood, and there's no road map for it to improve. >> >> _______________________________________________ >> talk mailing list >> talk@openstreetmap.org >> https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk >> >> > > _______________________________________________ > talk mailing list > talk@openstreetmap.org > https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk > >
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