Stobot,
I missed a lot of your message before, all my work has been on a
phone, raspberry pi and a 7 year old laptop, so things are going slow.
Unfortunately the lack of any help with getting a new computer means
that this isn't going to change any time soon because I am not going
to be able to get one myself until work picks up and then I won't have
much time to devote to this.
The problem with typing too quickly in when changing a tiddler
directly in Bob, like changing the site title, shouldn't be a problem
with more recent versions of Bob. I don't remember which version that
fix was introduced in.
I like the ideas of games in tiddlywiki, the first large project I did
with tiddlywiki was an interactive fiction engine in tiddlywiki. It is
in desperate need of an update, but it is still probably my favourite
thing that I made. http://zorklike.tiddlyspot.com
On Monday, December 28, 2020 at 4:09:44 PM UTC+1 Jed Carty wrote:
A quick update:
I have a demo up (shh, its a secret but you may be able to guess
the url). I haven't enabled creating accounts yet because there is
still a lot of administrative UI that I need to work out.
It is running on a digital ocean droplet with apache and passenger
handling the bits that they handle.
Once I get the temporary accounts set up I will open that up so
people can play with it a bit.
Stobot,
I don't think that is taking the idea too far, considering that is
one of my big motivations for doing this. I maintained the wiki
reference wiki for a while but it was only me and I got distracted
by other things, so having something community owned where
multiple people can edit and maintain it is one of the prime
motivators.
I have lots of ideas about how to use this to help package and
distribute plugins in a way that allows far more collaboration and
community assistance than is currently available to people who
aren't familiar with GitHub and other coding tools. I want things
like community documentation and translations for plugins when
there is a need, and this could lower the barrier to entry for
contributing by a lot.
On Sunday, December 27, 2020 at 5:59:21 PM UTC+1 Stobot wrote:
Jed,
I don't want to take the idea too far, but if we were going to
have a community-run TiddlySpot-like option available
(OokTech) - I wonder if we could also cover / expand on what
things like TiddlyTools used to be (and I assume still is for
TWC) for the community? The "TiddlyWiki toolmap" in Dynalist
from David, and the "scripts" area that Mohammad maintains are
fantastic and I'm appreciative that someone puts all the
effort into maintaining them. But, most other software has an
unofficial plugin forum or something where all authors can
post to, get feedback on, and users can vote - or we can see
download count - or something else to rank / evaluate them for
newer users that don't spend time every day combing through
Google Groups like us addicts :) Loft goal, but could be a big
step in the maturity of the platform to have something like
this available, and this OokWiki could be the technology that
could finally make that happen.
On Sunday, December 27, 2020 at 6:14:20 AM UTC-5 Yann Moudet
wrote:
Hello,
we use tiddlywiki + BOB as a knolewdge base for our team.
Our configuration:
- a linux server with node (LTS versions).
- oauth2-proxy: for authentication, Reverse-Proxy and SSL
termination.
- an S3 bucket for storing wiki. (versioning enabled).
- TiddlyWiki plugins: Bob, Comments and CheckList.
I could provision a demo server with this configuration
and/or lend a server for 6 months as a first lease. For
the second option, I would need a public key and a wished
configuration.
Yann
Le mercredi 23 décembre 2020 à 14:25:38 UTC+1, Stobot a
écrit :
Jed,
I'm very excited to hear that this continues to
develop - thank you! I continue to believe that easy
multi-user is a key pillar to growing TiddlyWiki usage
and adoption overall. As a fan of TiddlyWiki I am
happy to help anyway I can to support it's long-term
health. To that end, I've been going to your
https://github.com/OokTech/TW5-BobEXE/releases page
about weekly hoping to see something new - now
realizing that there were updates being posted elsewhere.
As you reference learning about use-cases from Google
Groups here, I'll share a bit about how I'm currently
using BOB, and have been hoping to use it in the
future. My most elaborate usage has been around
project management. I run a project management team of
about 40 project managers. Each project has multiple
team members, and there are levels of approvals
needed, as progress ties into people's bonus plans. We
use a custom blend of Six Sigma, Lean and a couple of
other methodologies to track our projects. So, I've
setup a BOB on a spare laptop inside the corporate
network and built out something for everyone to use /
collaborate with. I have a business background, not a
web / programmer background, so I struggled through
inventing a login process that was relatively easy
from my standpoint, but totally insecure. Essentially
I gave them a url suffix to access the site which is
referenced as their username.
From a functionality standpoint, this works - most of
the time. BOB does glitch a bit if you go into / out
of edit-mode too fast (as an example, even in the info
area where you enter your starting tiddlers, you have
to type VERY slowly or it leaves out some of the
characters). Running from a laptop to host works okay
generally, except in my company they have all these
forced updates that give a couple of hours notice, so
that laptop needs to be rebooted fairly frequently,
and does so automatically. Of course to the end-user,
that means the "server is down" frequently which comes
off as unprofessional and unstable. This is an area
that OokWiki would help with. Additionally, I'm giving
out a local address (10.xxx) which means that although
most of my team can work remotely and off-network,
they're having to login to VPN to access it, which is
somewhat annoying to them. By contrast for instance,
any of us that are using TiddlyWiki for personal use
are hosting as .aspx on SharePoint (WebDAV I think)
and able to work completely "off-network". That last
distinction also means that they all have access to
their personal wikis on their phones, but not BOB.
This is another area I'm hoping OokWiki can help with.
Actually now that I think of it, another hurdle is
that we've recently adopted Microsoft Teams
extensively, and you can add web tabs as long as they
have https: prefixes - so again SharePoint ones can be
added, but not 10.xxx addresses. I'm hoping OokWiki
can help there too - I've tweaked my current theme to
look very Microsoft-y to ease transition for my team.
Anyways, those should help make clear some of the
things I hope the evolution of BOB will help me solve
someday. I will say that we used this system for a
couple of months, but after a network issue caused us
to not use the LAN for a couple of weeks, many
transitioned back to previous methods of tracking, so
we're currently not using it unfortunately. I've been
hoping that BOB would make some more progress before I
re-introduce it to the team.
Aside from all of that, I've been thinking of various
ways I could invest some of my time into helping the
TiddlyWiki community. One was to see if adding some
beginner-intermediate YouTube videos for how I use
TiddlyWiki. I think the more the better in this area
for user adoption. A second way to really highlight
how game-changing BOB is was to start building Games
for BOB - which is what I hope to do over the coming
weeks / months!
Games for BOB: My family (wife and 2 kids aged 13 and
10) are all stuck at home pretty much full time at
this point. We play a good number of board / card
games - which we enjoy. I tested the idea of building
games in BOB and having them all login and they're
loving it so far (wife mainly rolls her eyes). Using
hidden tiddlers and just wiki-text you can get pretty
far. My plan is to build out some really basic
versions of these games and post them back here to
give further (and fun) use cases for real-time
multi-user platforms like BOB. My test case was a
tic-tac-toe, but have plans for increasingly
challenging games. I think most card games, and even
things like checkers / chess should be not too bad. I
have no intention of building a "computer" player as
that would drastically make the code harder, but for
in-house simple games, I think it'll be really fun -
they can play from their tablets / phones - which they
love :)
Anyways Jed - your post was part announcement, part
asking for help. I can help a bit financially, but
don't know if I have the technical skill you need from
that end. I will however continue to be a promoter of
your efforts! Let me know how I can help.
On Tuesday, December 22, 2020 at 8:04:05 PM UTC-5 TW
Tones wrote:
Jed,
Thanks for your work, this is very exciting. I
would be happy to help with Windows configuration
issues, but if the setup is only in Linux It may
be hard for me to work it out. Although I know how
to do Bob node on widows already, if I need only
implement additional features.
I continue to contribute by Patrion and hope
others do so as well. Your solutions fill a gap in
TiddlyWiki when it comes to serious multi-user
wikis. This is a substantial feature release,
thank you.
I would be keen to implement it on my LAN and
possibly through my Home firewall if possible in
time, I can use docker and other solutions by do
not know about digital ocean droplet, and I have
cpanel apache services online and possibly even
nodeJS and would love to configure a server as
well. It would be great to be able to develop and
have the results securely online. I would fund an
Australian host on top of my Hosting services if I
can set it up.
It is sad you are not based in Sydney because I
may be able to give you a laptop computer for
this. My condolences on the loss of your current one.
Best wishes for the season.
Tones
On Tuesday, 22 December 2020 at 21:05:17 UTC+11
[email protected] wrote:
Hello all,
The short version: I have a potential
replacement for tiddlyspot that could be
distributed and self-hosted on something small
like a digital ocean droplet. My computer died
and help getting a new one would greatly speed
up the development and release.
I think that a community managed public server
is a good idea, and it is designed so that you
can create your own private server.
The long version:
I made a server that works with Bob and
TiddlyWiki that adds a secure token-based
login that is appropriate for having a
web-facing server. I have been working on this
periodically for a while, some of you may have
seen it when I had Ooktech.xyz up. I have been
working on it periodically for a long time and
it is very close to ready for public release.
The problem is that an adorable kitten decided
that dancing on my multiprise was a good idea
and after some impressive sparks the computer
I do my development on is dead. The kitten is
fine and acts adorably innocent.
The server has all the features of Bob
(multiple wikis, everything configured from
within the wiki itself, support for multiple
simultaneous users), as well as a secure login
using JWT (json web tokens). Accounts have
granular permissions which can be set, there
many but here is a quick incomplete
description of what you can do, in no real
order. Server administrators can enable or
disable almost all of these features if they
are not useful for your purposes.
- A simple script to run that sets everything up
- Publicly viewable or private wikis
- Allow specific people to view or edit a wiki
- If an account owns a wiki they can set
permissions on their own wikis
- optional quotas for accounts both in terms
of number of wikis and storage
- A plugin library built into the server
- Access controls for plugins as well (so
plugins can be used to distribute content
without making it public)
- Simple 1-click download for wikis as a
single-file without Bob
- profiles/accounts and wikis can be set as
private so on one can see them
- Create an account on the server from a wiki
- update passwords and other account
information from inside a wiki
- accounts can have some 'about me'
information, if they want to set it
- Set if an account can create wikis
- namespaces wikis (if I create a wiki called
MyWiki it would be inmysocks/MyWiki) so
that there are no naming conflicts
- change ownership of a wiki (give a wiki to
someone else)
- inter-wiki federation, like chat and sharing
tiddlers between wikis
There are many other details about
administrator controls, but those are I think
the highlights for using the server. Almost
all of that is implemented, I am in the
process of adding usable in-wiki interfaces
for all of it.
The setup script is only currently for linux
and osx, I would need someone who is familiar
with windows to make that if anyone wants it.
Hosting online is generally linux so I am not
sure how much it would be needed.
My plan is to put up a demo site as soon as I
can that has limited life-time accounts to
show the features. You could create an account
that lasts a day and after the account and
wikis with it are removed.
I am not interested in hosting and running
this myself, it would be a community with
community governance supported by donations. I
do not know the demands that would be put on
it, but I don't think that the hosting costs
would be more than about $100/month.
I would of course continue updating the
server, but maintenance and operation must be
a group effort so we don't get a situation
like tiddlyspot where we rely on two people
who may not be active members of the community
and we have no way to shift ownership for
continued operation.
I don't know what interest there is in this,
so I am going to gauge that from the response
to this post. Also, help with getting a
development computer would speed things up a lot.
A link to the amazon wishilst for the computer
components:
https://www.amazon.fr/hz/wishlist/ls/2WM0S9VV3LJR1?ref_=wl_share
ps:
There are a lot of future features that I am
working on, like the ability to search
multiple wikis from one wiki, inter-server
federation so you can have your own private
server and interact with other servers, having
a login on one server that lets you access
wikis on other servers, things like that.
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