Hi Mark, Vytas, and others Thanks for the responses. My comment last night was not meant to criticize you, Mark, or your effort. I probably shouldn't post after 10pm, as it can come out wrong. My comment wasn't meant to be hate for what you did, but love for outliners. After years of notetaking in T-dub, creating numerous, probably around 50, different adaptations (yes, Vytas, I have done that extensively for years), outliners were like an epiphany for me, absolutely liberating. They let me get back to focusing on the content rather than on the mechanics. I was constantly saying to myself, "You mean I can just indent instead of having to add various levels of asterisks? You mean every item, whether a section, a paragraph or image, is its own webpage with an URL I can share? You mean images can just be dragged in rather than uploading them somewhere and then creating a tiddler with an image link? You mean if I want to reorder paragraphs in my article or outline or list or table of contents, I can just drag them? Wow!" These were the kinds of discoveries that made me excited about outliners.
So even considering going to T-dub for outlining feels like going back to jail. I use T-dub for the things it does well, and it does many things really well. So I use it a lot. Every day. But when I hear people in this forum turn their nose up at Dynalist - and I am not saying you did, but others have - it just sounds like ignorant prejudice from TiddlyWiki diehards, because I have found outliners liberating. Your attempt, valiant as it is, reminds me of one of my many attempts from 2014 - http://giffmex.org/experiments/obadiah.html#Table%20of%20contents. The new here button in conjunction with the toc feature seems to already do what you are doing. And it is great to a point. So I remember the excitement you are feeling at your success. All I am saying is that 1) there are limits. Scale is a killer, especially when tags, and lists based on tags, are involved. And it looks like tags are used for your toc as they were with mine. 2) And let's not pretend that TW could ever become an outliner-killer. You could refine this and hone this so that it is 500% or 1000% better, and it would still not do what an outliner does. And that is not a put down - it does not make your project less valuable or awesome for TiddlyWiki. In saying this I am trying to affirm Vytas' reply to me. I agree. Most of Dynalist's best features are free, but I pay for Dynalist pro because I benefit greatly from its value and it is worth it to me - I am online almost all the time, I do a lot of writing and organizing, and I deal with a large number of interrelated topics. I was an early adopter, so I have a discount. I do not pay 'double what it costs for Evernote', as someone put it. So my case is distinct. I realize not everyone would find it as helpful or cost-efficient. I am not trying to convert anyone from T-dub. Though TiddlyWiki is free, I try to 'pay' for it by creating resources like the TiddlyWiki toolmap to show my gratitude. I have probably paid with my time spent on shared projects for TiddlyWiki far more than I pay in money for Dynalist. One last note, @Mat: with Dynalist I can download a backup in plain text and opml with one button. And I fear more for TW over 25 years. Browser restrictions have already affected TW greatly. Who says they won't do so more in the future? Blessings to all. I enjoy the discussion and everyone's comments. Just trying to give a different perspective. David Gifford Mexico team leader, Mexico City *Resonate Global Mission* *Engaging People. Embracing Christ.* A Ministry of the Christian Reformed Church resonateglobalmission.org On Sat, Apr 14, 2018 at 11:43 PM, 'Mark S.' via TiddlyWiki < [email protected]> wrote: > > > On Saturday, April 14, 2018 at 6:07:55 PM UTC-7, David Gifford wrote: >> >> >> 1) Unless I am mistaken, this doesn't improve that much on using the new >> here button with the table of contents. You just title the child tiddler >> before creating, whereas with the new here button you do the same in the >> opposite order. It is slightly easier to grasp for newbies, though. >> > > If it's working correctly, when you make the new tiddler it should appear > inside the TOC "tree". If it's appearing outside the tree then you are > probably using a slightly older version of TW. With this mechanism, you > could quickly make the outline of whatever text you are preparing, drilling > down layer by layer. > > >> 2) I don't think this will scale in TiddlyWiki like it does in Dynalist >> or Workflowy. >> > > I think many people would be able to get along with a couple thousand > entries, and I expect it to scale to that. > > > >> 3) The children are not present when opening the tiddler the way child >> notes are visible when zooming in to a node in Dynalist and Workflowy. >> > > Guess I'd have to take another look at WF and DYN. > > >> 4) What makes Dynalist and Workflowy so appealing is that every paragraph >> of text is a separate node that can be reordered. And you can zoom into any >> level of the outline to focus on that level. >> > > Opening and closing the branches of the tree, you can get some level of > granularity and focus. Obviously one guy working a few hours on a project > can't do as much as entire teams of programmers. I'm sort of thinking it > might inspire someone to take it to the next level. > > >> I don't write this to be nitpicky or negative. I just don't want to see >> you wasting your time trying to make TiddlyWiki into an outliner. I don't >> see that it could compete, but then Dynalist and Worklowy can't compete >> with TiddlyWiki in many areas. >> > > Let me try Diego Mesa's argument on you: > > ...if you buy into the TW philosophy that its your external brain - that >>> you place all information that is somewhat important to you into TW - it >>> only makes sense that it would have some mechanism to help you remember >>> certain key pieces. >>> >> > For me, Dynalist and WF are no-goes because they can't work offline. OK, I > guess DL has a windows app, but it's kind of nice to get away from app's. > Their Android apps unfortunately do not work on my aging mobile devices. I > think images are important, and neither work with images without adding > money. > > Overall though, this was just an experiment. I probably won't take it > further unless some interest is expressed. Meanwhile I'll be looking with > interest at what zemoxian, JD and the others come up with. > > Thanks! > Mark > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to a topic in the > Google Groups "TiddlyWiki" group. > To unsubscribe from this topic, visit https://groups.google.com/d/ > topic/tiddlywiki/RNqJR1s6ysk/unsubscribe. > To unsubscribe from this group and all its topics, send an email to > [email protected]. > To post to this group, send email to [email protected]. > Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/tiddlywiki. > To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/ > msgid/tiddlywiki/c84a8647-0e3e-4ca7-a319-4092562b0fb4%40googlegroups.com > <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/tiddlywiki/c84a8647-0e3e-4ca7-a319-4092562b0fb4%40googlegroups.com?utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer> > . > For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. > -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "TiddlyWiki" group. 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