I am not sure about the full blown part, but outline yes.

This difficulty between composing large texts and the tiddler as the basic 
unit is a common stumbling block for newbies, until they understand the 
model they do create large tiddlers, then come to the forum asking 
questions how to deal with large tiddlers.

It makes sense we have a solution already made for authors of larger 
content that also encourages use of the tiddler and structuring that data. 
Personally unless we do this a lot of users will not even see how powerful 
it is to divide and organise there data or documents. Outlining is the 
minimum structure we need to support large documents.

I agree on using the TableOfContents model or similar, I would like to see 
a check box or setting that hides and shows tiddler names, edit links, tags 
and perhaps even author notes. SOne of those settings will show it in a way 
it can be printed and another so that open in new window is a valid way to 
monitor the whole documents progress while working on its parts.  Further 
ease of reordering is also important, and a preview plugins so you can see 
content of tiddlers from links also makes sense.

When users can author paragraphs and a paragraphs or section "is a tiddler" 
then collaborative documents is a possibility with all the features than 
can be applied to tiddler management becoming available.


On Tuesday, April 10, 2018 at 11:17:45 PM UTC+10, JD wrote:
> Hi Tony, you mean, like a full-blown outline, right? 
> If that's so, I think, maybe, we can use the TOC template for this. And 
> instead of transcluding the title, we transclude the body of the text 
> (while still following the tag-tree structure). What do you think? 
> My contribution in this will be slow during the weekdays (9 - 5 job + lots 
> of overtime gets in the way)
> This is exciting stuff. I'm thinking of using this to write a novelette. 
> On Tuesday, April 10, 2018 at 9:17:59 AM UTC+9, TonyM wrote:
>> JD,
>> Should we be using a new thread to collaborate otherwise we are somewhat 
>> hijacking the thread?
>> Of note is I am using filters such as "[tag[WhitePaper]]" where it would 
>> be nice to either include all tiddlers tagged by the tiddlers that are 
>> tagged by WhitePaper like the Table of Contents macro
>> I think there would be value being able to specify more than one filter 
>> as you suggest.
>> For the moment I am just thinking will the second filter be wrapped 
>> inside the first?
>> Imagine filter1 filter2 filter3 = chapter section paragraph
>> So when listing paragraphs we only want to be listing those with the same 
>> chapter and section
>> And ideally each filter will provide the sort order.
>> I will return to this soon.
>> Tony
>> On Monday, April 9, 2018 at 10:24:26 PM UTC+10, JD wrote:
>>> Hey Tony, I was thinking of adding "subtiddler" as another optional 
>>> parameter, then going along these lines:
>>> <$list filter="$filter$" variable="parItem">
>>> <$transclude tiddler=<<parItem>> subtiddler="$subtiddler$"/>
>>> </$list>
>>> As you can see, I'm not quite imaginative enough to think of more than 
>>> that 😅. Please do share your ideas, and use the code present on the 
>>> demo site to build something better (we can build them together, too, I 
>>> just don't know how collabs work).
>>> I'm also still mulling over using the Navigator widget, which requires 
>>> the creation of additional tiddlers, with the absolute pro of not having to 
>>> rely on temporary tiddlers... 🤔
>>> On Monday, April 9, 2018 at 7:30:47 AM UTC+9, TonyM wrote:
>>>> JD,
>>>> I just tried this and it is very helpful. Thanks for the demo.
>>>> I just applied it to a list of issues (items tagged Issues) and 
>>>> realised It would be helpful to list the sub tiddlers.
>>>> I have more ideas and some ideas about how to approach it, if you were 
>>>> to develop it further but as you say this conversation is already under 
>>>> way.
>>>> It seems a somewhat simpler approach is down this path.
>>>> Regards
>>>> Tony
>>>> On Sunday, April 8, 2018 at 2:09:28 PM UTC+10, JD wrote:
>>>>> I hastily created a wordy little macro that does the same thing, 
>>>>> before I read your post, and now I feel stupid lol 
>>>>> Still, I created a demo for the "paragraphs" macro, as seen here 
>>>>> http://j.d.paragraphs.tiddlyspot.com/
>>>>> But the navigator widget(?) method does look cleaner
>>>>> EDIT: corrected URL
>>>>> On Sunday, April 8, 2018 at 12:05:45 PM UTC+9, zemoxian wrote:
>>>>>> Here's a barebones template to start from:
>>>>>> <$navigator story="PE:story" history="PE:history">
>>>>>> {{$:/core/ui/Buttons/new-tiddler}}
>>>>>> <$list filter="[list[PE:story]]" template="$:/core/ui/ViewTemplate" 
>>>>>> editTemplate="$:/core/ui/EditTemplate" 
>>>>>> emptyMessage={{$:/config/EmptyStoryMessage}} />
>>>>>> </$navigator>
>>>>>>  You can create custom templates to replace $:/core/ui/EditTemplate 
>>>>>> and $:/core/ui/EditTemplate with simpler templates with the required 
>>>>>> functionality.
>>>>>> For example the view template could be as simple as:
>>>>>> <div>
>>>>>> {{||$:/core/ui/Buttons/edit}}
>>>>>> {{||move-up button}} {{||move-down button}}
>>>>>> <div><$view field=title /></div>
>>>>>> <div>
>>>>>> <$transclude />
>>>>>> </div>
>>>>>> </div>
>>>>>>  The move-up and down buttons would allow you to move paragraphs or 
>>>>>> sections up and down.
>>>>>> On Saturday, April 7, 2018 at 9:58:26 PM UTC-4, zemoxian wrote:
>>>>>>> You could combine a navigator widget with a list widget and a couple 
>>>>>>> of templates to manipulate multiple tiddlers from one tiddler.  This is 
>>>>>>> actually how the story works in the PageTemplate.  I've done this in 
>>>>>>> the 
>>>>>>> past while fiddling with stuff.  The navigator widget handles 
>>>>>>> manipulation 
>>>>>>> of the story tiddler by handling messages from buttons on the view and 
>>>>>>> edit 
>>>>>>> templates for the sub tiddlers.  You can create, edit, delete, save, 
>>>>>>> etc.  
>>>>>>> You can also create buttons with list operations to sort or reorder the 
>>>>>>> tiddlers. (I.e. move up 1, move down 1, move to top, move to bottom, 
>>>>>>> etc.)  
>>>>>>> So, it is possible to keep each sub tiddler as a single paragraph with 
>>>>>>> its 
>>>>>>> own title, tags, and fields and reorder them as needed.  It just 
>>>>>>> depends on 
>>>>>>> what features you want for a particular story editing app. It is a 
>>>>>>> little 
>>>>>>> tedious creating an app like this because you need to create the 
>>>>>>> various 
>>>>>>> templates and buttons, etc.
>>>>>>> On Tuesday, April 3, 2018 at 12:46:29 PM UTC-4, Vytas wrote:
>>>>>>>> I think it is not that important, whether you segment one tiddler 
>>>>>>>> by its fields (if their content can indeed contain longer texts, 
>>>>>>>> links, 
>>>>>>>> images..), or by creating new tiddlers within the primary tiddler, AS 
>>>>>>>> LONG 
>>>>>>>> AS you have the ability to EDIT those segments within the edit-window 
>>>>>>>> of 
>>>>>>>> that primary tiddler. 
>>>>>>>> Indeed, if you are writing a coherent text, tagging separate 
>>>>>>>> paragraphs by excising those paragraphs into different tiddlers makes 
>>>>>>>> the 
>>>>>>>> editing very cumbersome: you have to jump to those new tiddlers to 
>>>>>>>> edit 
>>>>>>>> them and then come back to the primary tiddler to see the integral 
>>>>>>>> result. 

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