I am not denying the fact that there may be some
situational (external) deteriminants to this but I
believe most of it has to do with internal
attributions (apathy). Many more college students work
and go to school these days and I was no different
myself. I also worked and went to school as a student
myself and also had to commute long distance. But this
never stopped or prevented me from seeing my professor
after class, or going to office hours when I needed
help. So this is still not a valid excuse for not
seeking extra help during office hours, tutoring
center, etc. I think you are falling into the many
excuses that students like to give for their lack of
effort. If there is a will there is a way. 

Payam



--- Retta Poe <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>     I don't want to get into an argument, but,
> again, I think it's good to
> avoid those internal attributions.  Maybe there are
> other reasons why students
> don't attend office hours or go for tutoring.  For
> example, many of my
> students work a significant number of hours - and
> they must, because they
> otherwise would not be in school.  Other students
> commute long distances to
> campus, and may not be able to make the drive on a
> whim.  Others may come from
> a background that makes asking for help difficult. 
> Some may have gone for
> help and found the "help" not helpful...and so
> forth.
>     So I still believe that rather than assume
> student apathy is the reason
> for their behavior, it might be a good idea to
> consider some other reasons
> (situational determinants) for their behavior, and
> it might be useful to ask
> them why they don't use those resources or why they
> haven't followed what were
> supposed to be clear directions.
>     Incidentally, I teach first-year students as
> well as upper-division and
> graduate ones.  I find that especially in the case
> of first-year students, the
> main problems are lack of information and lack of
> skill, not lack of interest.
> 
> Retta
> 
> Payam Heidary wrote:
> 
> > Retta,
> >
> > My experiences have not been similar to yours. You
> say
> > that you give very clear and specific instructions
> and
> > that you find students following them. This is NOT
> the
> > case with my students. You may have upper division
> or
> > graduate students who have learned their lessons
> > through more experience but if you teach freshman
> and
> > sophomores like I do then I am certain you will
> not
> > have the same experiences. I also think that
> apathy
> > has a lot to do with it because if students did
> not
> > understand anything but cared enough to want to
> > understand then you would expect them to seek more
> > assistance such as coming to office hours,
> attending
> > the tutoring and writing center on campus, etc.
> But
> > clearly most students do not do this. Just go to
> the
> > tutoring and writing center on your campus and ask
> > them how many students they actually assist per
> day
> > and how many come in for help and compare that to
> the
> > number of students needing help and you will see
> what
> > I mean.
> >
> > Payam
> >
> > --- Retta Poe <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > >     I think we should be very cautious in making
> > > attributions of student
> > > apathy when students don't do what we think they
> > > should.  One of the things I
> > > have learned in nearly 30 years of teaching is
> that
> > > at least some of the time
> > > (if not most of the time), when students don't
> do
> > > things the way I want them
> > > to, it's because 1. they haven't understood what
> I
> > > want, 2. they haven't
> > > understood that I _really do_ want something
> done a
> > > particular way (i.e., that
> > > I really CARE), or 3. they lack the skills to do
> > > what I want.
> > >     So I try to figure out a way to address each
> of
> > > these.  To address the
> > > first situation, I say what I want, I write it
> out
> > > clearly on a handout, and
> > > sometimes I even give them a quiz over the
> details
> > > of the assignment.  If they
> > > have to take a quiz, they pay attention!
> > >     For the second, I spend some time telling
> them
> > > why I care about some
> > > requirement, and I try to offer reasons that
> sound
> > > beneficial to them.  For
> > > example, I tell them that I want papers
> > > double-spaced so that I can have space
> > > to write comments and suggestions.  I tell them
> that
> > > I want a cover page so
> > > that their privacy is protected when I hand back
> the
> > > papers - others won't be
> > > able to see their grade and my comments on the
> paper
> > > because the cover page
> > > will "cover" the paper.
> > >     For the third, I consider whether my
> students
> > > can reasonably be expected
> > > to already have the skills in question.  If not,
> I
> > > don't lose any sleep
> > > worrying about why not - I just try to figure
> out
> > > how to help them acquire
> > > those skills.
> > >     As for motivation - I do specify some clear
> > > contingencies for
> > > reinforcement and punishment, and I stick to
> them.
> > > For example, I do not want
> > > late papers, and I do not want to reinforce
> > > procrastination.  So papers are
> > > due at class time on the dates specified. 
> Papers
> > > turned in up to 24 hours
> > > late receive half-credit, and after 24 hours,
> papers
> > > aren't accepted (of
> > > course, I do make exceptions for extraordinary
> > > circumstances beyond the
> > > student's control).  Guess what: last Friday,
> when I
> > > had papers due in one
> > > class, I received an on-time paper from every
> single
> > > student.
> > >     What's more, I also do not receive criticism
> for
> > > my policy on my student
> > > evaluations.  I think it's probably because 1. I
> > > make the policy very clear,
> > > and 2. I explain that I don't think it's fair to
> the
> > > conscientious students to
> > > give the less-conscientious students extra time
> to
> > > do their papers, so I am
> > > making sure that I don't reward students for
> being
> > > less conscientious.
> > >     I guess my point is that I think apathy
> probably
> > > accounts for only a very
> > > small percentage of the problems various
> Tipsters
> > > have mentioned.  Also, I
> > > would like to suggest that it may be useful to
> > > collect some data on this
> > > point.  When students don't do what you want,
> why
> > > not conduct a brief,
> > > anonymous survey to ask them why they didn't do
> what
> > > you wanted?  That way,
> > > you can know what you need to do differently.  I
> > > have tried this at times, and
> > > I have found it to be very helpful.
> > >
> > > Retta
> > >
> > > --
> > > Retta E. Poe, Ph.D.
> > > Professor of Psychology
> > > Western Kentucky University
> > > 1 Big Red Way
> > > Bowling Green, Ky. 42101
> > >
> > > (270) 745-4409   FAX: (270) 745-6934
> > > e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> > > http://edtech.cebs.wku.edu/~rpoe/
> > >
> > > "Live long, and prosper!"
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > ---
> > > You are currently subscribed to tips as:
> > > [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> > > To unsubscribe send a blank email to
> > [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> >
> > __________________________________________________
> > Do You Yahoo!?
> > Find a job, post your resume.
> > http://careers.yahoo.com
> >
> > ---
> > You are currently subscribed to tips as:
> [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> > To unsubscribe send a blank email to
> [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> 
> --
> Retta E. Poe, Ph.D.
> Professor of Psychology
> Western Kentucky University
> 1 Big Red Way
> Bowling Green, Ky. 42101
> 
> (270) 745-4409   FAX: (270) 745-6934
> e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> http://edtech.cebs.wku.edu/~rpoe/
> 
> "Live long, and prosper!"
> 
> 
> 
> ---
> You are currently subscribed to tips as:
> [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> To unsubscribe send a blank email to
[EMAIL PROTECTED]


__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Find a job, post your resume.
http://careers.yahoo.com

---
You are currently subscribed to tips as: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To unsubscribe send a blank email to [EMAIL PROTECTED]

Reply via email to