Tasha, I am very sensitive to students needs but at the same time I know what their academic responsibilities are as college students. Our job is not babysitting. Our job is to teach and student's job is to come prepared, willing and wanting to learn and work. Many students fulfill their academic responsibilities and many do not. Many students come with the mindset that "I just want an easy A. I don't want to work, learn anything or have to write any papers. I just want a good grade." And yes where there is a will there is a way. I am a true believer in this and have seen many students as evidence of this i.e., single mothers returning to school and getting top grades, older students, etc.
Payam --- tasha howe <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > You just said "if there is a will, there is a way." > funny that this advice > does not hold when it comes to getting out of > adjuncting and finding a tenure > track job. I think some sensitivity that students > are young, immature, > scared, and often completely clueless might help. It > doesn't matter whether > you think their excuses are valid or not. They are > real to them. Education is > an inherently risk-taking endeavor. Students put > themselves, their > self-esteem, and peer relations on the line when > they participate. If there > is not an atmosphere of support, humor, and genuine > collegiality, who would > risk their necks? Teaching is primarily about > relationships, not about > transmitting information to inferior subjects who > must fit in with a > preconceived set of expectations. When this fear and > pressure are combined > with a professor who shows a complete lack of > interest in their perspective, > an attitude of disdain for them as human beings, or > a lack of empathy for > their struggles, I am not surprised at all that they > won't participate. I'm > surprised they come at all. > > Payam Heidary wrote: > > > I am not denying the fact that there may be some > > situational (external) deteriminants to this but I > > believe most of it has to do with internal > > attributions (apathy). Many more college students > work > > and go to school these days and I was no different > > myself. I also worked and went to school as a > student > > myself and also had to commute long distance. But > this > > never stopped or prevented me from seeing my > professor > > after class, or going to office hours when I > needed > > help. So this is still not a valid excuse for not > > seeking extra help during office hours, tutoring > > center, etc. I think you are falling into the many > > excuses that students like to give for their lack > of > > effort. If there is a will there is a way. > > > > Payam > > > > --- Retta Poe <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > I don't want to get into an argument, but, > > > again, I think it's good to > > > avoid those internal attributions. Maybe there > are > > > other reasons why students > > > don't attend office hours or go for tutoring. > For > > > example, many of my > > > students work a significant number of hours - > and > > > they must, because they > > > otherwise would not be in school. Other > students > > > commute long distances to > > > campus, and may not be able to make the drive on > a > > > whim. Others may come from > > > a background that makes asking for help > difficult. > > > Some may have gone for > > > help and found the "help" not helpful...and so > > > forth. > > > So I still believe that rather than assume > > > student apathy is the reason > > > for their behavior, it might be a good idea to > > > consider some other reasons > > > (situational determinants) for their behavior, > and > > > it might be useful to ask > > > them why they don't use those resources or why > they > > > haven't followed what were > > > supposed to be clear directions. > > > Incidentally, I teach first-year students as > > > well as upper-division and > > > graduate ones. I find that especially in the > case > > > of first-year students, the > > > main problems are lack of information and lack > of > > > skill, not lack of interest. > > > > > > Retta > > > > > > Payam Heidary wrote: > > > > > > > Retta, > > > > > > > > My experiences have not been similar to yours. > You > > > say > > > > that you give very clear and specific > instructions > > > and > > > > that you find students following them. This is > NOT > > > the > > > > case with my students. You may have upper > division > > > or > > > > graduate students who have learned their > lessons > > > > through more experience but if you teach > freshman > > > and > > > > sophomores like I do then I am certain you > will > > > not > > > > have the same experiences. I also think that > > > apathy > > > > has a lot to do with it because if students > did > > > not > > > > understand anything but cared enough to want > to > > > > understand then you would expect them to seek > more > > > > assistance such as coming to office hours, > > > attending > > > > the tutoring and writing center on campus, > etc. > > > But > > > > clearly most students do not do this. Just go > to > > > the > > > > tutoring and writing center on your campus and > ask > > > > them how many students they actually assist > per > > > day > > > > and how many come in for help and compare that > to > > > the > > > > number of students needing help and you will > see > > > what > > > > I mean. > > > > > > > > Payam > > > > > > > > --- Retta Poe <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > > > I think we should be very cautious in > making > > > > > attributions of student > > > > > apathy when students don't do what we think > they > > > > > should. One of the things I > > > > > have learned in nearly 30 years of teaching > is > > > that > > > > > at least some of the time > > > > > (if not most of the time), when students > don't > > > do > > > > > things the way I want them > > > > > to, it's because 1. they haven't understood > what > > > I > > > > > want, 2. they haven't > > > > > understood that I _really do_ want something > > > done a > > > > > particular way (i.e., that > > > > > I really CARE), or 3. they lack the skills > to do > > > > > what I want. > > > > > So I try to figure out a way to address > each > > > of > > > > > these. To address the > > > > > first situation, I say what I want, I write > it > > > out > > > > > clearly on a handout, and > > > > > sometimes I even give them a quiz over the > > > details > > > > > of the assignment. If they > > > > > have to take a quiz, they pay attention! > > > > > For the second, I spend some time > telling > > > them > > > > > why I care about some > > > > > requirement, and I try to offer reasons that > > > sound > > > > > beneficial to them. For > > > > > example, I tell them that I want papers > > > > > double-spaced so that I can have space > > > > > to write comments and suggestions. I tell > them > > > that > > > > > I want a cover page so > > > > > that their privacy is protected when I hand > back > > > the > > > > > papers - others won't be > > > > > able to see their grade and my comments on > the > > > paper > > > > > because the cover page > > > > > will "cover" the paper. > > > > > For the third, I consider whether my > > > students > > > > > can reasonably be expected > > > > > to already have the skills in question. If > not, > > > I > > > > > don't lose any sleep > > > > > worrying about why not - I just try to > figure > > > out > > > > > how to help them acquire > > > > > those skills. > > > > > As for motivation - I do specify some > clear > > > > > contingencies for > > > > > reinforcement and punishment, and I stick to > > > them. > > > > > For example, I do not want > > > > > late papers, and I do not want to reinforce > > > > > procrastination. So papers are > > > > > due at class time on the dates specified. > > > Papers > > > > > turned in up to 24 hours > > > > > late receive half-credit, and after 24 > hours, > > > papers > > > > > aren't accepted (of > > > > > course, I do make exceptions for > extraordinary > > > > > circumstances beyond the > > > > > student's control). Guess what: last > Friday, > > > when I > > > > > had papers due in one > > > > > class, I received an on-time paper from > every > > > single > > > > > student. > > > > > What's more, I also do not receive > criticism > > > for > > > > > my policy on my student > > > > > evaluations. I think it's probably because > 1. I > > > > > make the policy very clear, > > > > > and 2. I explain that I don't think it's > fair to > > > the > > > > > conscientious students to > > > > > give the less-conscientious students extra > time > > > to > > > > > do their papers, so I am > > > > > making sure that I don't reward students for > > > being > > > > > less conscientious. > > > > > I guess my point is that I think apathy > > > probably > > > > > accounts for only a very > > > > > small percentage of the problems various > > > Tipsters > > > > > have mentioned. Also, I > > > > > would like to suggest that it may be useful > to > > > > > collect some data on this > > > > > point. When students don't do what you > want, > > > why > > > > > not conduct a brief, > > > > > anonymous survey to ask them why they didn't > do > > > what > > > > > you wanted? That way, > > > > > you can know what you need to do > differently. I > > > > > have tried this at times, and > > > > > I have found it to be very helpful. > > > > > > > > > > Retta > > > > > > > > > > -- > > > > > Retta E. Poe, Ph.D. > > > > > Professor of Psychology > > > > > Western Kentucky University > > > > > 1 Big Red Way > > > > > Bowling Green, Ky. 42101 > > > > > > > > > > (270) 745-4409 FAX: (270) 745-6934 > > > > > e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > > > > http://edtech.cebs.wku.edu/~rpoe/ > > > > > > > > > > "Live long, and prosper!" > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --- > > > > > You are currently subscribed to tips as: > > > > > [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > > > > To unsubscribe send a blank email to > > > > [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > > > > > > > > __________________________________________________ > > > > Do You Yahoo!? > > > > Find a job, post your resume. > > > > http://careers.yahoo.com > > > > > > > > --- > > > > You are currently subscribed to tips as: > > > [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > > > To unsubscribe send a blank email to > > > [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > > > > > -- > > > Retta E. Poe, Ph.D. > > > Professor of Psychology > > > Western Kentucky University > > > 1 Big Red Way > > > Bowling Green, Ky. 42101 > > > > > > (270) 745-4409 FAX: (270) 745-6934 > > > e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > > http://edtech.cebs.wku.edu/~rpoe/ > > > > > > "Live long, and prosper!" > > > > > > > > > > > > --- > > > You are currently subscribed to tips as: > > > [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > > To unsubscribe send a blank email to > > [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > > > __________________________________________________ > > Do You Yahoo!? > > Find a job, post your resume. > > http://careers.yahoo.com > > > > --- > > You are currently subscribed to tips as: > [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > To unsubscribe send a blank email to > [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > -- > *********** > Tasha R. Howe, Ph.D > Assistant Professor of Psychology (Developmental) > Transylvania University > 300 N. Broadway > Lexington, KY 40508 > Phone: (859) 233-8144 > FAX: (859) 281-3507 > Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > Website: > http://www.transy.edu/homepages/thowe/ftpdpages/index2.html > Another website I created: > http://www.scbwi-midsouth.com/ > > > > --- > You are currently subscribed to tips as: > [EMAIL PROTECTED] > To unsubscribe send a blank email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Find a job, post your resume. http://careers.yahoo.com --- You are currently subscribed to tips as: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To unsubscribe send a blank email to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
