>It really scares me that you are the only person (as far as I
>can tell) that
>is seriously interested in maintaining and developing Tomcat
>3.x into the
>future. It is not good to have the entire rest of the core
>developers work
>on Tomcat 4.x and having you sit here and say that you are
>going to work
>towards back porting everything that the Tomcat 4.x people
>come up with on
>your own. Talk about a complete duplication of effort by only a single
>individual.
* Costin is not alone on the TC 3.3 tree.
You could see there is contributions 3.3 from Larry, Nacho and Dan.
>I can't even understand someone wanting to base their work on
>Tomcat 3.x
>when all of the core developer support (ie: more than just one
>person) is
>going towards Tomcat 4.x.
* Hey, don't forget that tomcat 3.x is now the only real running
distribution.
Me and others see TC 4.0 as an experimental product, a way to test and
validate
the servlet 2.3 and JSP 1.2 API.
>I *personally* think that you should either drop your Tomcat
>3.x development
>and work towards making Tomcat 4.0 have all the features and
>benefits that
>you want to see in Tomcat 3.x (and thus show that we are all working
>together instead of this constant fork within the overall
>Tomcat project) or
>simply fork what you are doing into another project that is
>hosted somewhere
>else.
* The good point with TC 4.0 are all the good things inside (JMX, JAXP
1.0/1.1)
The bad point on TC 4.0 are all these good things (JMX, JAXP 1.0/1.1).
You have seens the thread on '[PROPOSAL] building is easy'. We need too
many
things now to build TC 4.0. Also even if TC 4.0 is an OpenSource projects,
too
many of the required packages are not 'Open Sourced' or not easily
exportable.
Also many peoples want to have a fast servlet engine with a low memory
profile.
I saw TC 4.0 to be much hungry.
>In fact, I'm pretty strongly -1 on Tomcat 3.3. If anything it
>would need to
>be suggested as Tomcat 5.0 because as far as I can tell, we
>have already
>come to the conclusion that Catalina will be Tomcat 4.0.
* Why not consider TC 3.3 as a light servlet engine ? It make sense since
many sites
will not need all the stuff inside TC 4.0. I hope that Apache Group will
not forget
that many of the web sites which run it's httpd servlet are personal
computers and
not clusters of Ghz CPUs and Gb of RAM.
>Don't take what I said as me kicking you out or killing things
>or anything even remotely personal.
>What I'm most concerned with here is the overall Tomcat
>project goals and
>seeing you duplicating work and effort is really not making me
>happy. Sure,
>you could say that the goals might be flawed in your opinion, which is
>perfectly valid, but the fact of the matter is that the rest
>of the people
>on the project are working towards making Tomcat 4.0 the future.
* I don't saw that as a duplicate effort. TC 3.3 is the continuation of 3.x
tree.
TC 4.0 is much more ambitiuous and nice for the next future but the
present now
is Apache JServ, Tomcat 3.1 and some Tomcat 3.2. We need to have a
continuation
effort on existing software for present hardware.
>One thing that Craig did with 4.0 that was the right thing to do was to
>lobby the core developers into working on his vision of the
>future, where
>your "attitude" has been to simply continue working on your
>vision no matter
>what everyone else is doing.
* That's may be the core of the problem. Craig has been just to good in
lobbying. There is not too much core developpers now in TC 3.3.
Another problem is that the majority of TC 4.0 developpers are Sun
employees. Many could see TC 4.0 as a Sun projects with externals
contributions and bugs reports. Please remember the discussions on
Xerces list against IBMers and Suners about Spinaker and Xerces 2.0
The danger now is that Apache Group seems to loose its heart.
Majors software companies are flying and provide their software
under the Apache Umbrella. Must we wait now for a Microsoft arrival with
a .NET or C# contribution to Apache Group ?
Did the operating system of Apache systems is still FreeBSD ?
Please wake-up all and see that Costin may be one of the latest BSDers out
of
there. An excellent developper but a poor politic.
All of us, have just too many politics in real life, so let it outside
Apache wall.
Let Costin and others continue their work on TC 3.3, 3.4, 3.5.
Just saw TC 3.3 and successor as a lightweight alternative to the more
ambitious TC 4.0.
Jakarta must be able to answer to user with low cost system. And please
don't forget that
Apache has made it's reputation on a fast http server running nicely on a
386 with 12m RAM.
