On Thu, 26 Sep 2002 20:33:15 -0400 "David Miller" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
writes:
> Blainer wrote:
> > ... it does sometimes seem to me you start out with some
> > foregone conclusions--sort of the doubting Thomas
> > syndrome, I guess.
>
> You must understand that I have been conversant with DaveH for many
> years on
> this list. He can tell you himself that the opinions you see me
> expressing
> here recently are not without careful study and consideration of
> evidence he
> and others have put forth. Yes, I do have some opinions and
> conclusions
> about certain things, but they are the result of a thorough study in
> this
> area.
Blainer) You definitely have a lot of answers that I had not considered.
No doubt you have looked into things, but I sometimes (not always) see
what you write as presenting an obviously one-sided point of view. It
is similar to the prosecution of a court case that is only interested in
showing evidence that supports the charges. (:>) I have to therefore
see what you write in many cases as being biased, rather than being
neutral and free of bias as you claim. Of course, in saying this, I also
have to admit to doing the same. (:>)
>
> Blainer wrote:
> > When I see others who want everything spelled out in
> > black and white, no jumping to intuitive conclusions
> > allowed, it leads me to believe there is something
> > basically defensive about that person--sort of reminds
> > me of the atheists who won't believe anything their 5
> > senses cannot perceive. What do you think?
>
> Everyone is at a different level in what they are willing to hear
> and
> consider. I don't see others here any more closed to you than you
> are to
> them. I do think they are closed at times, and even sometimes
> illogical and
> miss the point, but I don't see that problem only being with them,
> but with
> you as well. I think it primarily has to do with different
> backgounds and
> different worldviews.
Blainer) too true.
>
> Blainer wrote:
> > Do we have a sixth sense, or is spirituality all a figment
> > of our imagination?
>
> I believe that truth and knowledge can come through the spirit, and
> that we
> are not restricted to the five physical senses of our flesh.
Blainer) This is uncanny--it sounds like it came from my own mouth. I
have taught the same to many priesthood classes.
> Blainer wrote:
> > Would you mind telling me what you consider to be
> > the spiritual side of man, versus the carnal?
>
> The spiritual side is that which comes through the spirit of man,
> and the
> carnal is that which comes through the physical body, the flesh.
> Nevertheless, witches and warlocks can have a spiritual side to them
> as
> well, and it is not good. Men also can have an active imagination
> and call
> it spiritual.
Blainer) I agree on this point 100%. We see eye to eye on this!!! I
can still remember once when I received a revelation from the devil, knew
it was such, and still acted on it. I may go to hell for it, but that is
the truth. But I also know when the revelation is of God. And I know
many who claim revelation when it is fairly obvious it is just their
wannabe imagination. Very good!!
>
> Blainer wrote:
> > You do sometimes ridicule me for expressing myself
> > strictly for saying things I know intuitively or spiritually
> > are true, whether I can show some outside support for
> > them or not.
>
> The problem is that you need to have good reasons for what you
> believe. You
> can't just be comfortable with an idea. Paul said to always be
> ready to
> give an answer for the hope that is within you. Isaiah speaks for
> God in
> calling men to come reason with the Lord. If we cannot explain what
> we
> believe and why, it is probably because we are in deception but we
> don't
> want to admit it. I press you at times because I don't want you to
> gloss
> over the problem. If you gloss over inconsistencies in your
> thinking, then
> you will continue in deception. All truth is rational and
> understandable.
> Sometimes it is difficult to articulate, but truth needs to be more
> than
> just an intuitive feeling of being right. The idea that an
> intuitive
> feeling makes something right and godly is gross deception of occult
> origin.
> A revelation might start with such a feeling, but it must
> immediately be
> followed with knowledge so that the truth of it is clearly known.
> Otherwise
> people will follow all winds of doctrines and false teachings of
> many types.
Blainer) Well, this is true as far as it goes. But there are times when
the evidence is inconclusive, and logic and reason do not apply. In
these cases, one must rely on revelation, or at least intuition. As
James says, "If any of you lack wisdom, let him ask of God, who giveth to
all men liberally, and upbraideth not." JS did follow this admonition,
and received an answer. We may also test this, and hopefully the result
will be similar. Moroni says we may test the truth of the BoM in the
same manner.
However, I also reject the idea that we may simply ask, and receive an
answer without first doing our homework. The person who asks if the BoM
is true without first studying it thoroughly will probably not get an
answer--at least not from God.
> Blainer wrote:
> > Frankly, I sometimes feel like the man in Lehi's dream as
> > I grope through the mists of darkness, holding onto the rod
> > of iron (word of God) seeking the tree of life, and I am being
> > jeered at by those in the great and spacious building, who are
> > dressed in the fineries of the world. LOL
>
> Or maybe you are groping in darkness and are afraid to hear the
> light of the
> truth that will lead you out of that darkness. Maybe the light you
> think
> you have is not light at all. Please understand that I do not say
> these
> things to jeer at you. I speak the truth in love, with the hope
> that you
> will see that truth, knowledge, and revelation is rational and not
> based
> upon whimsical feelings.
>
> Peace be with you.
> David Miller.
>
> ----------
> "Let your speech be always with grace, seasoned with salt, that you
> may know how you ought to answer every man." (Colossians 4:6)
> http://www.InnGlory.org
>
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----------
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