RE: [TruthTalk] Lord of the Sabbath

[ShieldsFamily]

-----Original Message-----   My comments about picking up some sticks for your fireplace on Saturday was to try and help you think about the letter of the law versus the true intent of the law.  Somehow I think my questions about this were avoided.  Can we talk about picking up sticks on Saturday to make a fire in your home?  Do you agree or disagree with the idea that this deserves the death penalty according to Torah?   I didn’t realize I was avoiding your question about sticks—sorry.  Yes, if God said don’t do it, and you do it or get stoned, I guess that’s the way it goes.     Does making a fire in your fireplace on Saturday violate the moral law? Please define what you mean by "moral law."   If you intentionally ignore God’s orders, that’s a violation.  I don’t think God says that now (NT times).  But He does still say “rest on the Sabbath.”   You may think I am being nit picky, but I'm trying to find consistency in this topic.  It seems like you just pick and choose what part of the law you think should be followed and which part can be ignored.  It seems like you have your own definition of what Sabbath observance is, and you point to the Torah about the need to observe the Sabbath, but you don't really define Sabbath observance the way that the Torah does.   True—I just think we should rest, but not be fearful of getting stoned if we pick up a stick. The question now is just, is it a sin? I think it is a sin not to rest on the Sabbath. Does that answer your question?   I believe that Sabbath needs to be observed, but I see the Sabbath as the rest of God, the Kingdom of God, righteousness, peace, and joy in the Holy Ghost.  It is the promised land, as per the author of Hebrews so eloquently explains.   I agree with that. But I think it is still also a real day requiring real rest.   Ok, fair enough about Jesus, but the Torah is pretty clear about not building fires on the Sabbath.  What I'm trying to show you is that Sabbath observance and Pesach (Passover) are on the same level.  You seem to understand how Christ fulfills Pesach, but you don't seem to understand how he fulfills Sabbath.  I'm trying to understand why that is, and at the same time help you to see the inconsistency you have with regard to this.  I think the Spirit is leading you into some things here, but your understanding of it might cause some confusion because you don't rightly divide the Word of God concerning what the Sabbath is and how we truly observe it in our covenant with Jesus Christ.  We should not mix Sabbath observance of the New Covenant with Sabbath observance of the Old Covenant.   Why not? Why not rest? What do you have against resting???   At the same time, there is something else going on here as well.  God is leading many believers to an acceptance of Judaic practices.  He is putting a love in many Christians for Judaism, for their ways and their laws, because it is part of God's plan to revive Israel and save them in these last days.   Izzy wrote: > I'm not sure what "way the Torah talks about it". > Probably not. I just rest on the Sabbath.   But you quote the Torah as your authority for keeping Sabbath. If Torah is understood as drawing a shadow of the true Sabbath, then how you observe Sabbath might make a lot of sense.  On the other hand, if you say that the ten commandments must be followed and therefore sabbath must be observed, then it would seem to me that we should follow sabbath based upon how Torah says we should follow it.  The problem is that this is going into another covenant for observing it, rather than the covenant of Jesus Christ.  I keep thinking about Romans 10:1-13 again.  Did you read this passage yet?  (I know you have read it before, but in this context, does anything there kind of speak to you that maybe didn't speak to you when you had read it before?)   Rom 10:1   Brethren, my heart's desire and my prayer to God for them is for their salvation. 2   For I testify about them that they have (1) a zeal for God, but not in accordance with knowledge. 3   For not knowing about (2) God's righteousness and (3) seeking to establish their own, they did not subject themselves to the righteousness of God. So are you saying that I am trying to establish my own righteousness, and not God’s righteousness, by obeying the 4th commandment and resting on the Sabbath?  Am I also doing that if I obey the first or the 10th, etc, commandments?   Izzy