RE: [TruthTalk] Lord of the Sabbath

[ShieldsFamily]

-----Original Message-----   You spoke before about being convicted that you needed to rest on Sabbath.  I have asked you several times if you would feel convicted, feel like you have sinned, if you built a fire in your home on the Sabbath day.  Has that ever happened to you?  If you have never built a fire in your fireplace on the Sabbath, do you think you would feel convicted, like you have sinned, if you were to do that?  Please answer these questions.  You keep avoiding these questions.   No I don’t feel convicted of sin if I turn on the stove on the Sabbath. However I don’t care to cook on the Sabbath, and rarely do so. I don’t feel convicted if I turn on the gas fireplace either.   David Miller wrote: >> I believe that Sabbath needs to be observed, but >> I see the Sabbath as the rest of God, the Kingdom >> of God, righteousness, peace, and joy in the Holy >> Ghost.  It is the promised land, as per the author >> of Hebrews so eloquently explains.   Izzy wrote: > I agree with that. But I think it is still also a real > day requiring real rest.   Why do you feel this way about the seventh day, but not about Passover and the feast of unleavened bread?  Why not about the day of Atonement?   Jesus is the Passover, Jesus is the Unleavened Bread, Jesus is the Atonement. I can’t “do” those anymore, except in remembrance of Jesus.  They were looking forward to the Real Thing.  However, He is Lord of the Sabbath today, and I observe the Sabbath to rest in Him, to rest in His Atonement, to rest in His sinlessness, to rest in His Word.  Just like I take Communion in remembrance of Him (what He did on the Cross), I rest on the Sabbath in remembrance of Him (what He did during Creation).   When did His atoning Blood replace the Sabbath; ie resting as the Lord rested on the 7th day? The cross did not cancel out the fact that the Creator (Jesus) rested on the 7th day, and He wants us to rest on the 7th day too. Isn’t this a separate issue? I think this will be fulfilled by Jesus after He returns and sets up His kingdom on earth, and sits down to rest during the Millenium (the 7th thousand years—the seventh day).  (But that’s just my guess. It isn’t why I observe the Sabbath rest.)We are still looking forward to the fulfillment of that.   I think you feel this way about Sabbath because of the last days work of bringing revival to Israel, not because the letter of the law is still in effect.   If that is so, I don’t see how my love of Sabbath is any help to them. But the Lord has brought some Jews into my life, and I pray for them and love them dearly! And I often see a greater devotion to God (as they know Him) in them than I do in many of the limpwristed “Christians” I know.    If you have two people with faith in Jesus Christ whose lives are exactly alike, except that one lives in Israel and rests every Saturday, but the other one lives in the USA and rests every Sunday, do you think the wrath of God abides upon the one who rests Sunday but not upon the one who rests Saturday?  Is God such a legalist that there would be a moral distinction between these two people?  (This is not a rhetorical question.  Please answer.)   I don’t think God’s wrath is upon anyone who trusts in Christ, whether they observe the Sabbath or not.  Just like I don’t think His wrath is upon you or me if we break one of the other commandments. We have the blood of Christ to wash away our sins; thus the wrath of God.  The wrath of God is not the question.  The question is do you want to obey God to the fullest of your understanding, or not?   Why don’t you get upset if I tell you that I observe the first commandment, or the 2nd one? Why don’t you ask me all these same questions about those commandments—why do you pick out the Sabbath commandment only? Why is that an offense to you? You don’t accuse me of misunderstanding if I obey the other nine.   If I say “I have no other Gods than YHWH,” you don’t say, “Aha, you are trying to obey the LAW!  Shame on you—you just don’t get what FAITH is all about!” If I say, “I honor my father and my mother because that is one of God’s commandments” you don’t get all bent out of shape about that.  So right; if that’s what it means; get saved and then ignore God’s word, I don’t get it. I really don’t. Why do you only want me to ignore (or at least rest on a different day than the real Sabbath day) the fourth commandment? Please answer this one!   David Miller wrote: >> We should not mix Sabbath observance of the New Covenant >> with Sabbath observance of the Old Covenant.   Izzy wrote: > Why not?   Because the understanding of Sabbath is very different under each of the two covenants.   Yes, it is different. I have more freedom now to rest as I see fit. I don’t have to worry about the Sabbath Police stoning me to death if I don’t get it right. I can relax and enjoy my rest; knowing if I don’t get it “right” I am forgiven. But knowing that He will patiently teach me how He really meant to do it in the first place. He knows I am seeking His will, not my own, so He will lead me into that Rest that He spoke of in the NT—the rest that comes not only from being Forgiven for my sin, but also from living Free of practicing sin.  Knowing there is no fear of condemnation (except from the NEW NT Sabbath Police!)   Izzy wrote: > Why not rest? What do you have against resting???   I have nothing against resting.  Some people believe that they are righteous before God because they rest on Saturday rather than Sunday. My questions are meant to try and show the error in this kind of thinking, that we are right in God's eyes if we have respect for Saturday (Saturn's day) over the Son's day.   Izzy wrote: > So are you saying that I am trying to establish my own > righteousness, and not God’s righteousness, by obeying > the 4th commandment and resting on the Sabbath?  Am I > also doing that if I obey the first or the 10th, etc, > commandments?   Yes, that is what I am saying.  Yes, you are also doing that by trying to obey the 1st and the 10th commandments.  To enter into the righteousness that comes by faith means to quit trying to obey God's laws.  Consider some of the verses in Romans 10 that I've mentioned several times.   Rom 10:5  For Moses describeth the righteousness which is of the law, That the man which doeth those things shall live by them. Rom 10:6  But the righteousness which is of faith speaketh on this wise, Say not in thine heart, Who shall ascend into heaven? (that is, to bring Christ down from above:) Rom 10:7  Or, Who shall descend into the deep? (that is, to bring up Christ again from the dead.) Rom 10:8  But what saith it? The word is nigh thee, even in thy mouth, and in thy heart: that is, the word of faith, which we preach; Rom 10:9  That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved. Rom 10:10  For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation.   In this passage we see two different methods of obtaining righteousness.   Back to Sunday School 101.  This is something I did when I was 17 years old (about a hundred years ago).  I was all by myself, alone, in my bedroom.  After praying the salvation prayer, and feeling the overwhelming infilling of the Holy Spirit, I even began babbling in some unknown tongue—go figure!  It was years before I figured that one out!  However, since that time God has been very slowly (because I am so Hardheaded!!) teaching me to put sin out of my life, and seek to obey Him. A small part of that has been His leading me to honor Him by honoring the Sabbath.   The righteousness that comes by the law is by living by what the law says to do. That still does not mean that if we are living by faith that we should disobey the law.  Why can’t we agree on this simple thing?    If they law says do not murder, then you do not murder.  If the law says rest on the seventh day, then you rest on the seventh day. The righteousness that comes by faith, on the other hand, is not based upon ordinances and statutes that we must learn and then keep.  The righteousness that comes by faith is imputed to us, and also imparted to us, by His Spirit.  The laws become written upon our heart.  Yes, so we still obey the intent of the law, the meaning of the law, the commandments and MORE.   Now understand that this means we will fulfill the righteousness of the law when we obtain the righteousness that comes by faith.  So now we disobey the law because we have “faith” and can therefore ignore the Sabbath??? Huh? .  But also understand that the righteousness that comes by faith cannot be detailed by letters of ink upon parchment or paper.  We will not murder when we have the righteousness that comes by faith, but people like Ananias and Sapphira might drop dead at our word.  We will observe Sabbath too, but it might be the eighth day or even every day and not the seventh day of the Judaizers.  That’s exactly what I don’t understand—why would we want to do this on any other day than the Sabbath day, as God said?  Why? Why? Oh, why is it an offense to ANYONE if we do it on HIS day that HE chose, instead of whatever day we choose instead.  To me this is a subtle form of rebellion. (Now I have faith, and now I can do it MY way.)    We will observe Passover, but it might not be the 14th day of Nisan.  I don’t observe Passover (putting blood over my doorposts) because Christ’s Blood is over my soul.  I only observe a Seder meal as a remembrance of what Christ already did for me. Christ was pierced, as is the unleavened bread. Christ is the missing guest at the empty chair.  The whole meal is screaming “This is Messiah Yeshua! I am He!!! I am the Christ!”   Are you catching at all what I am trying to say?   As you can tell from the above, I’m either dumber than a doorpost, or what you are telling me makes no sense at all.  Let’s let God decide. If I’m mistaken, I doubt He will hold it against me. At least not as much as all of you NT Sabbath Police!   Izzy