David Miller wrote: >> Does making a fire in your fireplace on >> Saturday violate the moral law? >> Please define what you mean by "moral law." � Izzy wrote: > If you intentionally ignore God�s orders, that�s > a violation.� I don�t think God says that now > (NT times).� But He does still say �rest on the > Sabbath.�
What if you do it through ignorance, isn't that still a violation? Have you been following the thread with Slade? He says to "rest" on "Sabbath," but what is "rest" and what is "Sabbath." These are the questions we learn the answers to through studying the Scriptures. >From my understanding of Scripture, if you build a fire on Sabbath, you are not resting on Sabbath. One might extend that to include burning gas stoves or gas heaters in your home. Even a pilot light might be considered a violation. Izzy wrote: > ... I just think we should rest, but not be fearful > of getting stoned if we pick up a stick. The question > now is just, is it a sin? I think it is a sin not > to rest on the Sabbath. Does that answer your question? You spoke before about being convicted that you needed to rest on Sabbath. I have asked you several times if you would feel convicted, feel like you have sinned, if you built a fire in your home on the Sabbath day. Has that ever happened to you? If you have never built a fire in your fireplace on the Sabbath, do you think you would feel convicted, like you have sinned, if you were to do that? Please answer these questions. You keep avoiding these questions. David Miller wrote: >> I believe that Sabbath needs to be observed, but >> I see the Sabbath as the rest of God, the Kingdom >> of God, righteousness, peace, and joy in the Holy >> Ghost.� It is the promised land, as per the author >> of Hebrews so eloquently explains. � Izzy wrote: > I agree with that. But I think it is still also a real > day requiring real rest. Why do you feel this way about the seventh day, but not about Passover and the feast of unleavened bread? Why not about the day of Atonement? I think you feel this way about Sabbath because of the last days work of bringing revival to Israel, not because the letter of the law is still in effect. If you have two people with faith in Jesus Christ whose lives are exactly alike, except that one lives in Israel and rests every Saturday, but the other one lives in the USA and rests every Sunday, do you think the wrath of God abides upon the one who rests Sunday but not upon the one who rests Saturday? Is God such a legalist that there would be a moral distinction between these two people? (This is not a rhetorical question. Please answer.) David Miller wrote: >> We should not mix Sabbath observance of the New Covenant >> with Sabbath observance of the Old Covenant. � Izzy wrote: > Why not? Because the understanding of Sabbath is very different under each of the two covenants. Izzy wrote: > Why not rest? What do you have against resting??? I have nothing against resting. Some people believe that they are righteous before God because they rest on Saturday rather than Sunday. My questions are meant to try and show the error in this kind of thinking, that we are right in God's eyes if we have respect for Saturday (Saturn's day) over the Son's day. Izzy wrote: > So are you saying that I am trying to establish my own > righteousness, and not God�s righteousness, by obeying > the 4th commandment and resting on the Sabbath?� Am I > also doing that if I obey the first or the 10th, etc, > commandments? � Yes, that is what I am saying. Yes, you are also doing that by trying to obey the 1st and the 10th commandments. To enter into the righteousness that comes by faith means to quit trying to obey God's laws. Consider some of the verses in Romans 10 that I've mentioned several times. Rom 10:5 For Moses describeth the righteousness which is of the law, That the man which doeth those things shall live by them. Rom 10:6 But the righteousness which is of faith speaketh on this wise, Say not in thine heart, Who shall ascend into heaven? (that is, to bring Christ down from above:) Rom 10:7 Or, Who shall descend into the deep? (that is, to bring up Christ again from the dead.) Rom 10:8 But what saith it? The word is nigh thee, even in thy mouth, and in thy heart: that is, the word of faith, which we preach; Rom 10:9 That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved. Rom 10:10 For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation. In this passage we see two different methods of obtaining righteousness. The righteousness that comes by the law is by living by what the law says to do. If they law says do not murder, then you do not murder. If the law says rest on the seventh day, then you rest on the seventh day. The righteousness that comes by faith, on the other hand, is not based upon ordinances and statutes that we must learn and then keep. The righteousness that comes by faith is imputed to us, and also imparted to us, by His Spirit. The laws become written upon our heart. Now understand that this means we will fulfill the righteousness of the law when we obtain the righteousness that comes by faith. But also understand that the righteousness that comes by faith cannot be detailed by letters of ink upon parchment or paper. We will not murder when we have the righteousness that comes by faith, but people like Ananias and Sapphira might drop dead at our word. We will observe Sabbath too, but it might be the eighth day or even every day and not the seventh day of the Judaizers. We will observe Passover, but it might not be the 14th day of Nisan. Are you catching at all what I am trying to say? Peace be with you. David Miller, Beverly Hills, Florida. ---------- "Let your speech be always with grace, seasoned with salt, that you may know how you ought to answer every man." 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