Re: [TruthTalk] Catholic priests/child abuse victims

[Blaine Borrowman]

***Blaine:  Webster's unabridged dictionary, 2nd Edition, defines Martyr (Noun) as:   A person who chooses to suffer or die rather than give up his FAITH OR HIS PRINCIPLES.    Used a verb, the word means:  To put to death or toture for adherence to a belief.   Joseph Smith predicted his own death when he gave himself up to be arrested.  He said, "I go like  lamb to the slaughter.  My conscience is as clear as a summer's morning. It shall yet be said of me, he died innocent."  Having said this, he died a martyr in every sense of the word.  He could have escaped, but chose not to do so.  The charge of treason was trumped up.  Knocking out the Expositor was not treason.  knocking out the expositor had the backing of the entire city council,  for which many men should have been charged.  Apparently the local authorities only wanted Joseph Smith.  They knew he was innocent of the charge of treason, or they would not have felt it necessary to send an armed mob of over 100 men with painted faces to kill him.  Gov. Ford of Illinois was in on the conspiracy.  While in Nauvoo, Orrin Porter Rockwell overheard Ford tell one of his men that "the deed was done before this time," meaning, while the Ford people were in Nauvoo pacifying the Mormons, they knew the killing of Joseph and his brother had already been done in the city of Carthage.   Many years later,  Ford complained that Carthage had taken on the same reputation as Golgotha, and that he had been compared to Pontius Pilate.   Ford died penniless, and was buried in a pauper's grave, next to one of his son's who was a horsethief. ----- Original Message ----- From: Kevin Deegan To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Wednesday, February 18, 2004 1:29 PM Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Catholic priests/child abuse victims Well at least we can agree that he was not a MARTYR! Blaine Borrowman <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: Blaine:  Well, if all else fails in attempting to gainsay the doctrine itself, one can always resort to attacking the character of the man.  JS is not here to defend himself, right?   JS was issued over 40 arrest warrents in his lifetime, and beat them all--except the last one when they murdered him and his brother Hyrum.  The armed guards who were supposedly defending him stepped aside when the mob came up the stairs after him.  The guards fired some shots to make it appear they were doing their duty, but strangely, none of the shots hit any mob members, despite the fact that they were fired at point blank range.  ----- Original Message ----- From: Kevin Deegan To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Wednesday, February 18, 2004 11:56 AM Subject: RE: [TruthTalk] Catholic priests/child abuse victims husband of one wife, having faithful children not accused of riot or unruly." (Titus 1:5-6 KJV) Joe is disqualified on two counts here. More than 1 wife & more than 1 riot! 1826 Warrant on Joseph Smith the "Glasslooker" for " disorderly person and an imposture" Blaine:  See my comments to DaveM 1843 Warrants issued for the attempted assasination of the Governor of Missouri. Orin Porter Rockwell for assault with intent to kill, and Smith for being an accessory "before the fact." Blaine:  The charge against Rockwell (a cousin of JS, by the way) of attempting to kill  governor Boggs, who had issued an extermination order against all Mormons,   was never proven.  As Rockwell said, "if I had done it, I would have succeeded."  He was a dead shot, and seldom known to miss his man.  He wore a long beard and his hair long, and had been promised by JS that as long as he never cut his hair, he would never be killed by his enemies.  He outlived the prophet, and was a mainstay for law and order in Utah.  He was shot at innumerable times, mostly by outlaws--like as in thieves, robbers, murderers, etc.   While JS was alive, Rockwell served as his bodyguard.  If fair had been fair, they would never have gotten to JS to kill him.  They had to trump up charges to have Joseph a! rrested and away from Rockwell, whom they feared.  But they also knew JS was a law abiding man and would submit to arrest.  It was a conspiriacy from start to finish.   Both were indicted and a warrant from Governor Carlin of Missouri issued for Smith's arrest as a fugitive from the law in Missouri. Blaine:  The Missourians were not exactly a respectable bunch themselves.  The governor's illegal extermination order was in opposition to constitutional law, as well as Missouri law.  He did it to pacify the mobs in much the same spirit as Pontius Pilate agreed to crucify Jesus to pacify the Pharisee-led mob.  In 1844 a warrant was issued for Joe the mayor of Nauvoo, he was later arrested on a charge of Treason Blaine:  A trumped up charge to get him in jail, where he could be the more easily murdered.  and taken to Carthage Jail.   When the jail was stormed Joe shot & killed 1 wounded a second, with a smuggled gun. Blaine:  Wow!  What a rascal!  He tried to defend himself!!     He threw a real curve on that mob, having his own gun!  How unfair of him!  It wasn't as if he was naive and didn't know what was happening with the mob.  Besides smuggling the two guns he used against the mob, his friends kept him informed as to what the mobs were doing, as well as what else was happening.  He very well knew what he was up against.  He should have had an automatic rifle, considering the circumstances.  LOL Consider also Joe's violent character. David Miller <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: Blaine wrote: > For this reason, I still firmly believe Jesus > Christ was married, and that this fact--that > he was married-- has, along with the sexual > molestation of children, been covered up for > centuries by the RCC. The RCC acknowledges that their celibacy doctrine concerning the priesthood did not mature until about the fourth century. If there was any "cover up," I think they would try to push the origin of the doctrine back to the time of Christ. If Jesus was married, would we not have some record of it? With all the details of the gospels, why would his wife be unacknowledged? Blaine wrote: > I cannot believe He--Jesus--would implement a > doctrine either by example or word, that would > end up being so disastrous!! Jesus never implemented the doctrine of forced celiba! cy practiced in the Roman Catholic Church. Read what Jesus himself taught on the matter: "His disciples say unto him, If the case of the man be so with his wife, it is not good to marry. But he said unto them, ALL MEN CANNOT RECEIVE THIS SAYING, SAVE THEY TO WHOM IT IS GIVEN. For there are some eunuchs, which were so born from their mother's womb: and there are some eunuchs, which were made eunuchs of men: and there be eunuchs, which have made themselves eunuchs for the kingdom of heaven's sake. He that is able to receive it, let him receive it." (Matthew 19:10-12 KJV) It makes common sense that certain kinds of ministry is best done by a man who does not have a wife and family. Other types of ministry require a man to be married. "For this cause left I thee in Crete, that thou shouldest set in order the things that are wanting, and ordain elders in every city, as I had appointed thee: If any be blameless, the husband of o! ne wife, having faithful children not accused of riot or unruly." (Titus 1:5-6 KJV) Josep! h Smith failed on this qualification of an elder, even though your Scriptures repeatedly call him an elder, even "first elder" and "presiding elder" (see D&C 20:2, 21:1, 124:125). Why have you neglected hearing this passage of Scripture (Titus 1:5-6) so that you might keep your Mormonism? Peace be with you. David Miller, Beverly Hills, Florida. ---------- "Let your speech be always with grace, seasoned with salt, that you may know how you ought to answer every man." 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