[TruthTalk] Last words on Jesus had the same sinful flesh we have.

[Judy Taylor]

From: "Wm. Taylor" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Question: How can a child be born spiritually alive and at the same time be born an heir of Adam, with his sin or fallen nature? I was taught since Sunday School that Adam's sin brought spiritual death to not only himself but all of his descendants.   JT: Well that's scriptural "By one man sin entered into the world and death by sin and death passed upon all men for all have sinned (Romans 5:12)   WT: A Possible Answer (and Vince, this is to you too): If we take into account the go'el (kinsmen redeemer) aspect of Christ's atoning work (see my earlier post for the go'el ), we can then begin to understand how it is that the Second Adam is truly greater than the first. Why did it take THE go'el to redeem humanity? because the only other kinsmen that we all have in common besides the go'el, is Adam. We have his blood running through our veins. That blood had to be destroyed and recreated, if we were to stand a chance against the tyrants. But the go'el is not only the go'el, he is also pedah. He defeats the tyrants in the flesh, his own flesh, and thereby defeats them in humanity's flesh.   JT: The go'el did not come to redeem your flesh Wm. Only the first Adam was flesh and blood; the second Adam is a life-giving spirit. The Kingdom he offers is a spiritual one.  You must be born again; that is, born of the Spirit.   WT: In this way, humanity is included in the Incarnation. Christ is David, so to speak (although on a much smaller scale), standing before Goliath and representing all of the Israelites in his battle. When David was victorious, all Israel shared in his victory. How is that? Because these people understood representation. Even though David was from the line of Judah and others were from the line of the other brothers, he could represent them all because he was go'el for them, through their common heritage in Abraham. What David defeated on a small, external scale, that being Goliath, Christ defeated on a grand, internal scale --sin, death, the devil, the world (See Col. 1 for the scope of Christ's victory and a context whereby now to grasp it).   JT: So are you about "positional truth" William?   WT: It is neither hyperbole nor is it error to say that we are included in Christ in the Incarnation. Indeed that is where our adoption takes place (see Eph. 1). Now if we refuse to believe in Christ, what do we lose? not our adoption, but our inheritance, which of course includes everlasting participation in the eternal relationship into which we were adopted, the relationship between the Father and the Son in the Holy Spirit: This is hell.    JT: No faith, no adoption or inheritance. Also hell is a place prepared for the devil and his angels, it is not a state of being.   WT: On the other hand, when we place our faith in Jesus Christ, what do we receive, if not adoption? We receive the Holy Spirit, who guarantees our inheritance (eternal life among other things. See again Eph 1 [verse 13 specifically], along with other passages which speak of the work of the Spirit). The Holy Spirit then is Christ in us, the hope of glory, the hope of everlasting fellowship with the Father and the Son. Why are children born spiritually alive when Adam can only give them death? Because the work of the first Adam was destroyed in the work of the Second Adam (see Rom. 5, e.g., and I Cor. 15). When Christ died, all died. When he rose again victorious, he brought with him all who had died in his death. Therefore, from now on, we regard no one according to the flesh. Even though we have known Christ according to the flesh, yet now we know Him thus no longer (II Cor. 5:17).   JT: Are you saying that everyone in this world rose with Christ and every baby born into this world is now risen with Christ Bill? Do you believe that this happens by osmosis?   My 98yr old mother does not know the Lord, are you saying she will go to heaven anyway even though she understands none of this?.   Judyt