Brigham Young speaking in the Journal of Discourses Vo1 1, Page 51 1852, "Jesus our Elder Brother was begotten in the flesh by the same character that was in the garden of Eden, and who is our Father in Heaven."
I read "begotten in the flesh" to mean "producedy sexually". And, it purportedly was "Adam", a.k.a. the LDS "god the father", that did the begetting. This is why I believe it was a physical union.
You said, "OK Perry.....once again FTR......LDS doctrine is very specific about Mary.....She was a virgin. Furthermore, I do believe God the Father is Jesus' literal father. Do you not believe both those concepts, Perry?
Literally, as in "had sex with"? Like your father literally had sex with your mother to beget you? No.
The son (a.k.a the Word) is God (John 1:1), as the Father is God. They are one (in more than purpose, also being one in essence), and neither of them preceded the other.
The Holy Spirit is also God, as the Son and the Father are, and of the same essence. God caused Mary, before she had known a man, to become with child supernaturally via the Holy Spirit. This was a miracle, not a "begetting in the flesh".
The sonship of Jesus relative to the Father is because Jesus was born of a woman via the Holy Spirit. This was a miracle, not a "begetting in the flesh" by the Father.
BTW, I had a discussion with a LDS Missionary a few years back, and he denied that Mary was a virgin when she became with the child Jesus. When I asked him why the Bible said she was a virgin, he explained that "Virgin" merely meant "young woman", not "had never known a man". I thought these guys were trained well in LDS beliefs, but I guess not as well as I thought.
Perry
From: Dave <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] false notions Date: Fri, 02 Apr 2004 00:01:02 -0800
Charles Perry Locke wrote:
DavidH,
If I produce a statement from one of the LDS prophets that says it WAS a physical union,
DAVEH: Have you got a quote that Kevin did not offer? I do not recall anything Kevin quoted as using the term, PHYSICAL UNION. So.....please post it, Perry. I'd be interested in seeing it, as I've never seen anything that has said such in LDS literature yet. (But.....I'm a slow reader!) :-)
will you change your position? Or will you deny that the one who stated it was a prophet?
DAVEH: Until you quote something, Perry.....what is there to deny, other than your highly biased desire to make TTers think I believe something that I don't believe. Why are you taking such a round-a-bout path to shoot your big guns? As I said below.......
Please quote the passage you think applies and I'll explain it as I understand it.
.......Why do you not just toss out what you're referring to so we can talk about it. I've got to tell you, it is hard to defend my beliefs against innuendo and veiled comments that are meant to hide that you lack what you imply. (Yikes......That was sure worded awkwardly!!!)
Now Perry......I asked you below......
/
OK Perry.....once again FTR......LDS doctrine is very specific about Mary.....She was a virgin. Furthermore, I do believe God the Father is Jesus' literal father. Do you not believe both those concepts, Perry?/
......and you failed to answer. Perry, I don't mind telling you what I believe (when asked), but is there a reason you do not afford me the same courtesy?
Perry
From: Dave <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] false notions Date: Thu, 01 Apr 2004 07:24:17 -0800
Charles Perry Locke wrote:
David, you are denying what several of your own prophets have stated.
DAVEH: No, Perry. I am denying the spin you are putting on their words.
Have you not seen the multitude of references that Kevin has provided that indicate such?
DAVEH: No.....I have not. The references I have seen have *not *said /God had physical sex with Mary/. So I do not understand why you continue saying that we do believe that, despite me telling you previously that it is not LDS doctrine or teaching.
Are you saying that they were NOT prophets, and had no authority, or were they wrong on just this one occasion?
DAVEH: Please quote the passage you think applies and I'll explain it as I understand it.
Please set me straight. Explain to me the DH understanding of the relationship between the LDS god and Mary that produced Jesus' earthly body. If it differs from the LDS teachings, please tell me what the LDS believe about this.
DAVEH: OK Perry.....once again FTR......LDS doctrine is very specific about Mary.....She was a virgin. Furthermore, I do believe God the Father is Jesus' literal father. Do you not believe both those concepts, Perry?
I also believe there is a genetic (if that is the correct word) connection between God the Father and His Only Begotten Son, Jesus that took place by virtue of the power of the Holy Ghost. That does not mean that the HG created Jesus. But rather Jesus was conceived in the womb from genetic (as best as I understand it) material of both the Heavenly Father and Mary without a physical/sexual union that would disqualify Mary's virginity.
Now that you presumably understand what I just explained, Perry.....will you continue expounding that we believe the opposite?
Perry
From: Dave <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] false notions Date: Wed, 31 Mar 2004 23:04:33 -0800
DAVEH: Interestingly.....Perry you have once again quoted /He had physical sex with Mary/ which I have several times denied to be LDS doctrine on TT. Why do you make such a claim when you know it to be false? Did you think I lied to you?
-- ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Dave Hansen [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.langlitz.com ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ If you wish to receive things I find interesting, I maintain Five email lists... JOKESTER, OPINIONS, LDS, STUFF and MOTORCYCLE.
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