[TruthTalk] Pre-Mortal Existence

[Dave]

Charles Perry Locke wrote: DaveH, your frequently used phrases "return to heaven" and "back to heaven" are LDSisms. That we are "returning to heaven" is not traditional Christian thought. DAVEH:  I realize that, and probably do it just to irritate you, Perry!   :-P     BTW......I listen to Terry's acquaintance (Steve Brown of KEYLIFE MINISTRIES) on the radio almost daily, and frequently hear him refer to returning home when he talks about going to heaven.  To me, it is pretty hard to return home if one has never before been there.  Do you disagree, Perry?  Isn't that concept D&C stuff, and not even BoM thought? Where in the bible does it state that we were previously in heaven prior to our birth? Be sure not to quote verses that refer to God's omniscience and foreknowledge to prooftext that LDS idea. DAVEH:  Why not?  Seems like you have misunderstood them and need to be reminded the Jews knew of a pre-mortal existence, as is shown by Jn 9:1-3.      As for prooftexting, I don't think that applies at all, because my belief is well founded in latter-day revelation rather than simply taking a few passages from the Bible and interpreting them as I think meets my needs.     However, there are a number of Biblical passages that allude to our pre-mortal existence.  Looking at Gen 2:4-5, we find that God created.......  every plant of the field before it was in the earth, and every herb of the field before it grew .......suggests there are two creations:  First a spirit creation in heaven, and then later a mortal creation we know as our earthly existence.   Is there reason to think man would not also have been spiritually created?     When Paul said God promised us eternal life before the world began (Ti 1:2)......who do you think he made such a promise to???     When the Lord (Jb 38:4-7) reminded Job (in a backhanded way--vs 4) that He (God) laid the foundations of the earth and the morning stars sang together, and the sons of God shouted for joy, (vs 7), it is apparent to me there were more than a few of God's spirit creations in the pre-mortal existence.      Those sons of God apparently were us, so to speak.....if Gen 6:2 is to make sense.  Or.....do you think angels (sons of God) were marrying women without first becoming mortal, Perry?     Rev 12:7-9 relates the war in heaven between Michael and his angels and Satan and his angels.  So......obviously there was a lot of people in heaven prior to an earth existence.  Why would you not think we (mortals) could have been there, Perry???     Furthermore, I have read a few books about NDE (Near Death Experiences) over the years, and recall a couple instances where those who returned from beyond the veil actually met spirits yet to be born into mortality.  Have you read similar things?  I realize they don't exactly compare to Biblical stories, but I find them rather interesting and confirming evidence of what I believe.     So Perry......I pretty well understand why I believe we existed in a pre-mortal life, and have mentioned a few Bible passages that would lend evidence to my LDS biased notions of such.  (I don't see any point in quoting LDS Scripture to you though, as you have already expressed your disdain for such.)  So let me ask you, Perry......What evidence do you offer from the Bible that would suggest we never existed in the pre-mortal existence with our Elder Brother and the angels of heaven? Perry -- ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Dave Hansen [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.langlitz.com ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ If you wish to receive things I find interesting, I maintain Five email lists... JOKESTER, OPINIONS, LDS, STUFF and MOTORCYCLE.