From: Dave <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Christian Perfection Date: Wed, 14 Apr 2004 00:05:30 -0700
Charles Perry Locke wrote:DaveH,
I know you say you are not on TT to espouse your Mormon Theology, but isn't that what you are doing with Terry below?
DAVEH: Hmmmmmm.........I'm just trying to answer the questions that are posed to me. Seems like I'm damned if I do, and I'm damned if I don't. Guess I can't make everybody happy, Perry. BTW.....You are one who is asking questions that require me to /espouse Mormon Theology/. Would you prefer I just stop replying to your questions?
The point is not whether or not you post LDS doctrine or teachings...you missed it if you think that is my complaint. My complaint is that in your pat reason for being on TT, you claim it is not to espouse LDS theology. So, when you DO espouse LDS theology, you make yourself out to be a liar.
I would prefer that you change your pat reason to include "and occasionally espouse LDS theology". That way, when you teach LDS philosophy you are not contradicting your own stated purpose for being here.
While I am at it, the part of your pat statement, "I am not here to learn the truth, I am here to learn what Protestants believe" is a demeaning double entendre. It implies that you believe that Protestant could not possibly know he truth. I am offended by that statement of yours, but expect it from someone following an errant faith.
It appears to me that you are using the Socratic method
DAVEH: I'm not sure what that means......but it sounds like you are suggesting it as a negative trait......
The Socratifc method is a very useful teaching tool used to teach by leading the student into the desired lesson by forming leading questions that guide the student to the point you want him to learn. It is powerful because rather than just stating a "fact", it lays a "logical" line of thought from where the student is, to where the teacher wants him to be. But, when that "logic" is founded on a fallacy, the result is false logic leading to false beliefs. You are questioning Terry as if to lead him to the LDS the point of view.
to bring him in line with your LDS beliefs. (BTW, I have no fear for Terry. I believe him to be well grounded enough not to follow your Socratic leading.)
I have no problem with you doing such, David, since that is what TT is all about...but I just cringe when you say (type) that you are not hear to teach LDS theology, then you teach LDS theology.
DAVEH: I cringe whenever you use the wrong word (hear) to describe me, Perry! :-(
Okay, lets focus on my mispelling for a while. Done? Okay, lets continue. Was there any doubt in your mind what I was trying to say?
Please forgive me for being a bit critical. I only did it to poke you in the ribs a bit...... :-)
To be a bit more serious (assuming you've already forgiven me for my childish behavior), I find the Protestant thinking about salvation to be unBiblical, as I read passages like Mt 24:13. My thinking on salvation fits how I understand the Bible, and don't quite see why you (Protestants in general) don't see it the way I do. Rather than quote LDS Scripture to support my beliefs (which makes my argument much easier to present), I've tried to stay within the bounds of the Bible in most of what I post. (And tonight I did go slightly out of bounds by mentioning some NDE stories.) I've tried to acknowledge my LDS biases, but what I've mentioned below I can substantiate from the Bible.
I admit that you seldom try to espouse LDS theology, and that you do generally refrain from directly referenceing LDS works. But, you will you consider that perhaps it is your LDS bias that makes Christian biblical theology look wrong to you? Christians do not believe the way you do because you are in error. That error comes from the false religion you are following. David, you were born into that religion, and your views were biased before you EVER consdiered what Christians believe. That makes it tough for you to see the truth, and much harder for you to see the error in LDS theology. But, you are an adult now, and can lay youir preconceived notions aside and see the truth. I pray that the holy Spirit will lead you to the truth.
I'm really not sure what you are complaining about though, Perry. I do not say that we can save ourselves. If you review my comments, I clearly have stated that without Jesus' atoning sacrifice and resurrection, there is nothing we could do of ourselves to save ourselves. To me, this simplified view of grace makes much more sense when you look at what the Bible teaches....to learn to become perfect like our Father in heaven. When we learn to walk in obedience to accomplish that, then we will have endured to the end and will find ourselves in heaven.. I think many Christians have it a bit backwards in their understanding of salvation.......Until we reach heaven, it seems to me that we have the promise of salvation.
Perry
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