Judy Taylor wrote:
From: Dave < [EMAIL PROTECTED]>
... with all the conflicting beliefs as to what Jesus taught,
it would seem like you are suggesting a lot of folks who think they are
believers, really aren't believers ...
Davidm: Right...
DaveH wrote:... and will end up being tossed into the lake of
fire for
having (some) misconceptions about what Jesus taught. Is that correct,
DavidM?
Davidm: No. The only reason for tossing anyone into the lake
of fire is
sin. Nobody will be cast into the lake of fire because of
misconceptions.
DaveH: Thanx for your explanation, DavidM. If what you say is
correct,
then what do Christians see as the downside of having
misconceptions?
judyt: I don't agree with Davidm on this
point
DAVEH: Who do you think the bulk of Christianity agrees
with on this, Judy......You or DavidM?
judyt: Well the "bulk of Christianity"
would probably be the rcc
DAVEH: When I used that term, I was thinking along the lines of
Protestantism. I should have been more specific, Judy. (But.....I
think a lot of TTers grow weary of me saying things like, "I'm here to
learn what Protestants believe and why they believe it."
and they have a very intricate
system of moral and venial sins,
purgatory, etc. None of which is addressed by scripture but
then it was the "majority" who insisted
Jesus be hanged on the cross in place of Barabbas
when Pilate was willing to free him so
it's dangerous to use the majority opinion for anything
other than a democratic election.
DAVEH: I'm merely trying to learn how the majority of Protestants view
it.
because to my understanding
having misconceptions would be the same
as being deceived and how was
Eve deceived in the garden? Didn't she
entertain some misconceptions that
were presented to her? Another thing
that bothers me is why some appear
to be so hung up on hell and the lake of
fire
DAVEH: I'm hung up on it because I find the popular Christian
perception to be very interesting. To me it is obviously symbolic, but
to most Christians it seems to be a literal lake of fire. Yet (to me)
it seems so illogical.....That a loving God would punitively punish
people who never had the chance to accept/believe Jesus by physically
torturing them forever. Seems pretty harsh.....even for the wrath of
God, does it not! Contrast that to the Lord's story of the prodigal
son.....do you find both teachings to be at odds?
judyt: I don't find truth to be at odds at
all. God is loving but he is also holy and perfectly just. Noone will
spend an eternity in torment who has not personally chosen this end.
DAVEH: From what I've learned previously in TT, anybody who dies
without believing in Jesus is condemned to the lake of fire. (I assume
you agree???) Yet there are literally billions who have lived and died
without even hearing the name of Jesus, let alone hearing the gospel.
So......if they (through no fault of their own) don't believe in Jesus
and end up being eternally tortured in the lake of fire......what
commentary does that speak of a loving God? Or......do you believe
that they will be given the chance to believe in Jesus after their
death? I think virtually all I've chatted with about this deny this
possibility though.
It would have been this way for the
prodigal son also if he had not chosen to repent in the pigpen and
return to the Father's house. Note, the Father did not chase him down;
still he was responsible for his own life choices.
when the scripture teaches that
it is the "wrath of God" we are to be
saved from. If/when we are saved from
this we will not ever have to be
concerned about the lake of fire.
DaveH: Without some negative result, what motivation would
Christians have
to seek the truth? Jesus told us the truth would set us
free. Free from what,
if misconceptive (can't think of the proper word for that
one!) Christians can
be saved?
judyt: Free from the lie that will damn
a person's soul and incur the wrath of
God.
DAVEH: Which brings back the question: Is one damned from sin
or misconception? (Or.......both?)
judyt: What is sin?
DAVEH: That which separates us from God.....?
What is misconception?
DAVEH: That which separates us from truth......?
Where does the responsibility lie?
DAVEH: If we keep the commandments, we shall know the truth....
There is none so blind
as he who will not see... Stiff
necked, stubborn, rebellion, is what damns the soul. To obey is better
than sacrifice.
DAVEH: Hmmmmmmm......surely you aren't suggesting salvation by
obedience.....! :-)
Davem: People may be pardoned for their past sins by trusting
in Jesus Christ.
The evidence that such trust is being exercised is the experience of
righteousness, light, understanding, peace, and joy in the Holy Ghost.
--
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Dave Hansen
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
http://www.langlitz.com
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
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