Re: [TruthTalk] The Mediation of Christ

[Dave]

David Miller wrote: DAVEH wrote: From what I've learned previously in TT, anybody who dies without believing in Jesus is condemned to the lake of fire. That's because all have sinned. The wages of sin is death. DAVEH:  Now you are drawing a conclusion that death equates to physical punitive torture.  As I think I've learned from our previous posts, you believe those in the lake of fire will never die, but suffer physical pain for ever.  How do you figure that is death, DavidM? DaveH wrote: Yet there are literally billions who have lived and died without even hearing the name of Jesus, let alone hearing the gospel. Billions? DAVEH:  If you don't like billions.....how many would you feel comfortable with.....millions???  That alone would be a lot of  folks who would unjustly receive the wrath of God.  I suspect you would disagree with my use of unjustly......but, how would you explain the Lord's mercy for those who die and suffer without having had a chance to know of and accept their Savior? I doubt the truthfulness of this assumption. DAVEH:  Do you really think it unreasonable to assume there have been billions who have not heard the gospel?  Think of the folks who lived (outside Israel)before Jesus was even born.  Or the billions of Chinese and other Asians who for the past few thousand years have been isolated from Christianity.  That isn't counting all the societies that have not really registered on the pages of history, who simply have not been exposed to Christianity.  I really don't think my use of billions is all that overly exaggerated, DavidM. How many have you personally met who had never heard of Jesus Christ? DAVEH:  I have not traveled to those areas where his name has not been heard.  However, that does not mean those folks who know of the many know anything about the gospel.  Do you think the Lord will consider simply hearing Jesus' name is prerequisite enough to decide one's eternal fate??? How many have you personally met who did not know what year it was according to the A.D. designation? DAVEH:  I wonder how many Christians even know what AD means! DaveH wrote: So......if they (through no fault of their own) don't believe in Jesus and end up being eternally tortured in the lake of fire......what commentary does that speak of a loving God? They suffer the second death because of the sins they have committed. DAVEH:  Please explain what you mean by a second death.  If they live on eternally (being physically tortured), how does that qualify as death? Why would you say that they are eternally tortured through no fault of their own? DAVEH:  If one truly has no knowledge of the law, can he be justly prosecuted under the law?  IOW.....If God says that anybody who does not accept Jesus will receive a torturous punishment, and then provides no way for everybody to even have the opportunity to hear about Jesus.....how just would God be for consigning that unknown soul to physical torture for his lack of knowledge? That's like saying that a murderer should not be condemned simply because he never heard the gospel of Jesus Christ properly explained to him. DAVEH:  You are mixing apples and oranges on this one, DavidM.  We do have laws that prevent a murderer from being condemned for his action if his mental capacity is insufficient to understand the crime of murder.   If a kid living in China 1500 years ago reached an age of knowing right from wrong (let's set an arbitrary age of 10 or so), and committed a few childish transgressions, yet never had a chance to hear the gospel or even Jesus' name.....let say that kid died of the some accident......Would it be just for God to condemn him to eternal physical torture forever?  What sin could that kid possibly have committed that would justify him being eternally swimming in that lake of fire that Christians traditionally believe will cause undue pain forever?  Could a kid sin so much to deserve so much pain? Peace be with you. David Miller, Beverly Hills, Florida. ---------- "Let your speech be always with grace, seasoned with salt, that you may know how you ought to answer every man." (Colossians 4:6) http://www.InnGlory.org If you do not want to receive posts from this list, send an email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and you will be unsubscribed. If you have a friend who wants to join, tell him to send an e-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and he will be subscribed. -- ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Dave Hansen [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.langlitz.com ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ If you wish to receive things I find interesting, I maintain Five email lists... JOKESTER, OPINIONS, LDS, STUFF and MOTORCYCLE.