Hi
John:
Not surprisingly I don't agree with Bill on
this issue. Why seek counsel from the RC Church Fathers when we
have the wisdom of God in the New Testament itself? It is
important to have the mind of God in Christ about these issues. The
scriptures teach that at the Second Coming Jesus will judge the
world in righteousness after which He will rule the earth with a rod
of iron - In the meantime His followers are to be in the process
of being sanctified, that is, dealing with their own issues (of the
heart) in being conformed to His image. I don't see any mandate
for the merging of Church and State in scripture until Jesus' return.
Constantine had no genuine conversion before he publicly
merged Church and State in Rome (345AD) after his supposed
epiphany. >From all accounts his behavior did not change, he
continued to have people murdered and was not baptized until
he was on his deathbed. Constantine is responsible for
merging paganism and public religion into the system that morphed
into today's RCC.
The Lord speaks to us through the apostle
Paul who writes that God gives government the authority to weild the
sword which leaves the Church free to love (Romans 13:4-6) and so we
are to pray for them and support them in this. The confusion happens
when we try to confuse the two. The RCC is more political than
spiritual and IMO looks nothing at all like the "image of Christ"
and too many times it is the Pope muddying the water.
judyt
John's
response > What bothers me
in this reply is that I honestly do not see a plan
for dealing with those who are bent on our physical harm and intend to
accomplish this in the very near future.
John
Regarding the topic of
fighting the war on terrorism, Lance wrote
> On a personal (community) level we need to be
'living' this truth we 'talk'.
John, the following quotes are from the
Second century. I thought them relevant to your comment.
"For the Christians are
distinguished from other men neither by country, nor language, nor the
customs which they observe. For they neither inhabit cities of their
own, ... nor lead a life which is marked out by any singularity. ...
But, inhabiting Greek as well as barbarian cities, according as the
lot of each of them has determined, and following the customs of the
natives in respect to clothing, food, and the rest of their ordinary
conduct, they display to us their wonderful and confessedly striking
method of life. They dwell in their own countries, but simply as
sojourners. As citizens, they share in all things with others, and yet
endure all things as if foreigners. Every foreign land is to them
as their native country, and every land of their birth as a land
of strangers. They marry, as do all; they beget children; but they do
not needlessly cast of fetuses [destroy their offspring]. They have a
common table, but not a common bed. They are in the flesh, but they do
not live after the flesh. They pass their days on earth, but they are
citizens of heaven. They obey the prescribed laws, and at the same
time surpass the laws by their lives. ... They are poor, yet
make many rich; they are in lack of all things, and yet abound in all;
they are dishonored, and yet in their very dishonor are
glorified. They are evil spoken of, and yet are justified; they are
reviled, and bless; they are insulted, and repay the insult with
honor; they do good, yet are punished as evil-doers. When punished,
they rejoice as if quickened into life; they are assailed by the Jews
as foreigners, and are persecuted by the Greeks; yet those who hate
them are unable to assign any reason for their hatred.
...
Do you not see them exposed to wild beasts,
that they may be persuaded to deny their Lord, and yet are not
overcome? Do you not see that the more of them are punished, the
greater becomes the number of the rest? This does not seem to be the
work of man: this is the power of God; these are evidences of His
manifestation."
-- Mathetes
"But the Christians show kindness to those
near them; and whenever they are judges, they judge uprightly; ...
they do good to their enemies; ... if one of them have bondsmen and
bondswomen or children, through love towards them they persuade them
to become Christians, and when they have done so, they call them
brethren without distinction. They do not worship strange gods, and
they go their way in all modesty and cheerfulness. Falsehood is not
found among them; and they love one another. ... And he, who has,
gives to him who has not, without boasting. And when they see a
stranger, they take him in to their own homes and rejoice over him as
a very brother. ... And if they hear that one of their number is
imprisoned or afflicted on account of the name of their Messiah, all
of them anxiously minister to his necessity. ... And if there is any
among them that is poor and needy, and they have no spare food, they
fast two or three days in order to supply to the needy their lack of
food. ...
Such, O King, is their manner of life. ...
And verily, this is a new people, and there is something divine in the
midst of them."
-- Aristides
"We know many among
ourselves who have given themselves up to bonds, in order that they
might ransom others. Many too have surrendered themselves to slavery,
that with the price which they received for themselves, they might
provide food for others."
-- Clement of Rome
"But among Christians you will find
ignorant persons and artisans, and old women who, though they are
unable in words to prove the benefit of their doctrine, yet by their
deeds exhibit the benefit arising from their persuasion of its truth:
they do not rehearse speeches, but exhibit good works; when struck,
they do not strike again; when robbed, they do not go to law; they
give of those who ask of them, and love their neighbor as themselves."
--Athenagoras.
It may not look
like a plan, John, but it is the life we are called to
live. In the Fourth century Rome wearied of its war against
Christianity -- and promptly joined it. Not long after that,
Christians were acting like Romans, a truth born out many times over
the following centuries. I know the Jihadists hate us, but I am
not convinced it's because of our Faith. If we are to win this war, my
friend, it will not be with M1s and Daisy-cutters. Islam will have to
go the way of Rome. I pray we will not make
the same mistake twice.
"For though
we live in the world, we do not wage war as the world
does. The weapons we fight with are not the weapons of the
world. ..."
-- Paul
Blessings,
Bill
